From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Helmut Eller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Package initialization Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 19:01:56 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87twt1dmxu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <21931.51113.826895.663216@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <21932.20274.646021.600004@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1437411745 3282 80.91.229.3 (20 Jul 2015 17:02:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 17:02:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Artur Malabarba , emacs-devel To: "Stephen J. 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[212.46.190.46]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d5sm12661182wiz.24.2015.07.20.10.01.56 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 20 Jul 2015 10:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from helmut by ix with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1ZHERw-0001QV-6B; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 19:01:56 +0200 In-Reply-To: <21932.20274.646021.600004@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (Stephen J. Turnbull's message of "Mon, 20 Jul 2015 10:30:26 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22f X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:188015 Archived-At: On Mon, Jul 20 2015, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > Because slime-connect is supposed to create a connection to an external > > process. Not mess around in with some mode-hooks and minor-modes. > > If slime-connect won't work properly without slime-setup, there's no > difference. If it's useful to do slime-connect without slime-setup, > that would be another story but it sounds unlikely. It wouldn't work properly without slime-setup. Hmm... since we can't call slime-setup from .emacs, I guess we have no other choice than to call it from slime-connect too; very annoying. > I'd have to hear > details to say how XEmacs would prefer to handle it. The current version of SLIME doesn't work with XEmacs; we stopped supporting XEmacs about a year ago. > > package.el seems to be so designed that package installation > > implies package initialization. I don't like that but I can't > > change it. > > I didn't get that impression. It's one thing for Emacs to > automatically scan for usable packages and add them to load-path, to > set up autoloads for their entry-point commands, and perhaps add their > data directories etc to appropriate paths so they can be found by name > rather than a full filesystem path. I don't consider that > "initialization" because it's consistent with the "and the kitchen > sink" tradition of Lisp environments (especially GNU Emacs), where > packages that many users would never notice if they weren't installed > are often included with the core distribution. I have the impression that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand wants. In the manual they say that it's ok to add things to auto-mode-alist, but then Stefan says that packages should not be enabled automatically. > It's another to change the meaning of user gestures, even in a trivial > and "obviously useful" way like adding to keymaps. > > If in fact the majority of lisp-mode users find slime sufficiently > useful, what I would do is negotiate with the lisp-mode maintainer (I > suppose that's actually emacs-devel) to get the slime bindings > "officially" added to the lisp-mode keymaps, and arrange for them to > fail gracefully if the slime package is unavailable, eg, by binding > them to a `lisp-mode-how-to-get-slime' help command. I think we rather keep control of key bindings in our own hands; especially as we don't always agree with the Emacs maintainers (like the bindings for M-./M-, until recently etc). Helmut