From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: MPS signals and Emacs Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 11:29:30 +0200 Message-ID: References: <878r16n5jl.fsf@gmail.com> <87ttjulb16.fsf@gmail.com> <86a5ll7wj9.fsf@gnu.org> <71431fc4-2ab2-4778-88df-25d4e315d737@cs.ucla.edu> <00fec231-a625-406e-a51b-cb66710c6482@cs.ucla.edu> <86wmop6cot.fsf@gnu.org> <86v8496ajl.fsf@gnu.org> <86ttjt69i2.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8577"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, eller.helmut@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 22 11:30:24 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ryq0G-00022S-18 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 11:30:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rypzV-00018X-Hz; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 05:29:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rypzU-00018F-En for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 05:29:36 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x52a.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52a]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rypzS-0000zh-57; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 05:29:36 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-56e48d0a632so6249781a12.2; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 02:29:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1713778172; x=1714382972; darn=gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=OThssO7UjU4nTd5S/iOOzFc7RLJXYPmsThdlRK65kmA=; b=ZaJebZyb+PXzCStkr7hsIpP+mDIcLx/0kT6THs7NqQNVP4uwualb+g2wBbZDgE+Ubj 7APqmRv+POeibAqoARnEqHQs4tKao2CoMuraOsyMfTOxGa2mtMy2tNpfuiutprMAIf+i zLJegbv1bbPRkal1kqS0DFdK9as4jIOQRRomA2mNVz6bEKDDxIDozd2Z48530q+lSjR7 cgEeqpt5yjF/FniDM/tiNQ8elevIqnHtQhcfoNCAxUWNz7c20oQnU4cqsT8nS6ScPj/N 97CZPz9vF3IsPn7ejJC86Wr9E/yh9KisDTOcg1JWj0KkP9G0u4TXA7L+TrNEYXWYn5sF r+2w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1713778172; x=1714382972; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=OThssO7UjU4nTd5S/iOOzFc7RLJXYPmsThdlRK65kmA=; b=WA+BXNEmMgJCEsP3AwTVjnOHl/TcEsCzU5yIHb2lfnMXC9rjx7KsVD2PGhxEpD/Qs1 SIUCCoVVvkwOE5wLT0My4IPUQnpwqdnVJ2Q2v8KLzHgcNOc0d+++RytroOAjjrFhjSAR AVxEifxhwmhRCfd+6GigStfmsD7LNe1OI2DsuMiKMcOJAUp5gEJfC+GS5VIh95hewF2Q ZXSXpQXTerGgSmZm70jzL8vUJv+TrIMIJ7Nj+uX8voopypnhw10qcvzx9gM8Aajs7Jg6 5KzmE1efY6h30R35AUex1TTLt+X6h+s1nWP+svx3kuJZKnxgMZN3h9CqY1MflyRTzbkh Panw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXvTW92Y5arU8W06iN/B2xV776UK8uDVTGJJI0Db91vMNvMacTzPMJJvaEAdut9ypqRi59ymhtXW6XEh5VfTkBt0ahT X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzIYMVcL+rVo57tb7XAzIs1s/72tZyoVtbJCjIUKF1uaN/JvMyo tRy8hiEfinZtMdvBaak8T/6gUbNcffm+X6T8hVWPsyuTKlVtVL7YoupxSg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGOp+wMZJSfOoYre3Mku4yegGSkfMMsp2tTBWGMQrOmf7z6iaFgwA/BnNAcr6X1NZ7jQ6py0Q== X-Received: by 2002:a50:d6d7:0:b0:56f:e7b9:e67d with SMTP id l23-20020a50d6d7000000b0056fe7b9e67dmr8439458edj.12.1713778172055; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 02:29:32 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Pro.fritz.box (p4fe3af79.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [79.227.175.121]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ch15-20020a0564021bcf00b0056e34297cbasm5368329edb.80.2024.04.22.02.29.31 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 22 Apr 2024 02:29:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <86ttjt69i2.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 22 Apr 2024 12:18:29 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::52a; envelope-from=gerd.moellmann@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x52a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:317969 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> I think I've also seen at least one other example, but I forget where >> that was (maybe specpdl, or bytecode?). I think the function called >> is mark_mem or so. > > So any Lisp object referenced from the C stack or from byte-code will > not be copied by MPS? Yes. > What are the implications of that for Emacs? AFAIU, the current GC > considers any such object as live, marks it, and doesn't collect it as > garbage during the sweep step, but being unable to copy such an object > means something very different for a copying GC, doesn't it? Because > AFAIU live objects _are_ copied. No, it's a bit different. Being able to copy and objects being live are orthogonal. At the heart of the mostly-copying idea is simply that ambigupusly references aren't moved in memory (so they aren't copied). That doesn't mean these objects aren't live. They are.