From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Andrew Hyatt Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A proposal for removing obsolete packages Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 00:25:42 -0500 Message-ID: References: <83twmkkv16.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1452576354 6873 80.91.229.3 (12 Jan 2016 05:25:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 05:25:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 12 06:25:50 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aIrSn-0005m2-Jw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 06:25:49 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58209 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aIrSm-0001Cl-Sf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 00:25:48 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50537) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aIrSj-0001A1-FB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 00:25:46 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aIrSi-0004y7-Dc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 00:25:45 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qg0-x22b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22b]:34674) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aIrSi-0004xe-9q; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 00:25:44 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-qg0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id 6so342529488qgy.1; Mon, 11 Jan 2016 21:25:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=5/lOWWaJmKo/UyC+H8HyImzYQWn0oLoZa7QS2V00RUk=; b=W7Q4lrciGlmU4b1qCCZjAaDcSyJZtAd3uSbFuroawE4Bfmo1sgQWx7vMfsdwyB+Hbn 0KE0xW3Gvl9Lg5sYjLiRFKpi3DSk6jWxLjrNlBYgz7+e1zqB+dZ8MCAZAQzNNH505WeP uqsHHzQ3VGtIo1T8XmJPrzpBZ3BXD9xUC8JC90UobZzrL/sB7okjmUFfjlJtJK1nnZum dW69nIrYmXWbJwYbG4e3sDdYUkbqevzmn8SUS9VLRX2wVjfYT20R0i25bj4hTH8voEu1 sYWsSfNXZUoX10kkqBl3xqWD226OK8zXVTBP9UcOvmNc4L19PqnyfvS89pMX8BOXh+i5 VMrw== X-Received: by 10.140.251.131 with SMTP id w125mr176244511qhc.1.1452576343991; Mon, 11 Jan 2016 21:25:43 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Andrews-MacBook-Pro.local.ahyatt-laptop (cpe-74-73-128-199.nyc.res.rr.com. [74.73.128.199]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i136sm33557387qhc.42.2016.01.11.21.25.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 11 Jan 2016 21:25:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83twmkkv16.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 11 Jan 2016 17:14:45 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (darwin) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22b X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:198066 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Andrew Hyatt >> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 22:09:27 -0500 >> >> Currently, obsolete elisp is moved to the obsolete subdir. Attempts to >> load them are successful, but come with the warning message " >> is obsolete!" I propose that we leave them in the obsolete subdir for >> one major version. At the start of every new major version, we remove >> everything from that subdir package that has been there since the start >> of last major version. >> >> For example, a package that is declared obsolete during the development >> of Emacs 25 would be moved to obsolete, and a message would be added to >> say that " is obsolete and will be removed in Emacs 27". It >> couldn't be removed in Emacs 26 because it didn't start Emacs 25 in >> obsolete. >> >> In short, obsolete package added in the middle of a release will be >> guaranteed to exist until the next major release, and then one more >> major release. > > That sounds good to me, thanks. > >> There might be even better solutions to this problem. I certainly have >> not attempted to explore the entire space of solutions. Perhaps the >> timing is too long as well - I wouldn't mind making things more >> aggressive and instead removing all obsolete packages at the start of >> each major version (meaning that an obsolete package would last one >> major version or less). This probably would work itself out and obsolete >> packages would tend to not be removed at the end of the major version >> development cycle. > > We've repeatedly seen reports from people who jump 2 major releases, > so I think removing sooner than after a full major release cycle is > not something we should start with. Sounds reasonable to me, thanks for the feedback.