Dramatic upgrade (was active URLs in Gnus)

Dramatic upgrade (was active URLs in Gnus)

[Tim McNamara]

Following up on Reiner's suggestion about upgrading to a newer version
of Emacs/Gnus, I hunted around to find a suitable new version.  Via
the fink package system I found 21.2.1 which is apparently about a
year old.  

Erm, what a *dramatic* difference!  The visual interface has been
heavily revamped, almost looking embarrassingly like Word, actually,
with a icon bar across the top of the display.  The little ASCII gnu
has been replaced with an attractive full-color cave art pictograph.
Yikes!  Now I need to find a post or two with an URL in it to see if
the new version and updated .emacs file will pass the URL to Mozilla.

I feel like I've suddenly come out of the Bronze Age or something!
Long term users may not quite recall the sense of amazement that one
gets after changing from standard-issue GUI word processors and such
to something with the power that Emacs has.  Yikes!

Re: Dramatic upgrade (was active URLs in Gnus)

[David Kastrup]

Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> writes:

> Following up on Reiner's suggestion about upgrading to a newer version
> of Emacs/Gnus, I hunted around to find a suitable new version.  Via
> the fink package system I found 21.2.1 which is apparently about a
> year old.

21.3 is a bugfix release and should in all cases be preferred to 21.2.

> Erm, what a *dramatic* difference!  The visual interface has been
> heavily revamped, almost looking embarrassingly like Word, actually,
> with a icon bar across the top of the display.

Emacs.toolBar: 0

into your .Xresources file (or .Xdefaults or whatever a Mac uses)
will make you get rid of it.  If you come from older versions of
Emacs, you'll know all relevant keybindings, anyway, and have better
use for the screen estate.

> The little ASCII gnu has been replaced with an attractive full-color
> cave art pictograph.  Yikes!  Now I need to find a post or two with
> an URL in it to see if the new version and updated .emacs file will
> pass the URL to Mozilla.
> 
> I feel like I've suddenly come out of the Bronze Age or something!
> Long term users may not quite recall the sense of amazement that one
> gets after changing from standard-issue GUI word processors and such
> to something with the power that Emacs has.  Yikes!

If you want to see impressive screen shots of the new display engine
in useful action, take a look at
<URL:http://preview-latex.sourceforge.net>.

And of course, for an overview over what is new, use C-h N or so
(should be advertised on the splash screen.  I can't check since the
keybindings have changed recently and I am using a developer version).

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: Dramatic upgrade (was active URLs in Gnus)

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help
> From: Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net>
> Date: 08 Nov 2003 14:22:06 -0600
> 
> Long term users may not quite recall the sense of amazement that one
> gets after changing from standard-issue GUI word processors and such
> to something with the power that Emacs has.  Yikes!

The fact that the look has changed so much doesn't mean that the power
went away.  In fact, quite the contrary is true.

Re: Dramatic upgrade (was active URLs in Gnus)

[Klaus Berndl]

On 08 Nov 2003, David Kastrup wrote:



>  Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> writes:
>  

[...]

> > I feel like I've suddenly come out of the Bronze Age or something!
> > Long term users may not quite recall the sense of amazement that one
> > gets after changing from standard-issue GUI word processors and such
> > to something with the power that Emacs has.  Yikes!
>  
>  If you want to see impressive screen shots of the new display engine
>  in useful action, take a look at
>  <URL:http://preview-latex.sourceforge.net>.
>

Maybe not so impressive as preview-latex but in the Screenshots-section of
ECB at http://ecb.sourceforge.net there is a further example what is possible
with the new display engine - see the left/top-most screenshot
(http://ecb.sourceforge.net/screenshots/1.png).

Klaus

-- 
Klaus Berndl			mailto: klaus.berndl@sdm.de
sd&m AG				http://www.sdm.de
software design & management	
Carl-Wery-Str. 42, 81739 Muenchen, Germany
Tel +49 89 63812-392, Fax -220

Re: Dramatic upgrade (was active URLs in Gnus)

[Tim McNamara]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@elta.co.il> writes:

> > Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help
> > From: Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net>
> > Date: 08 Nov 2003 14:22:06 -0600
> > 
> > Long term users may not quite recall the sense of amazement that
> > one gets after changing from standard-issue GUI word processors
> > and such to something with the power that Emacs has.  Yikes!
> 
> The fact that the look has changed so much doesn't mean that the
> power went away.  In fact, quite the contrary is true.

Indeed, and no implication that it had.  My point was comparing the
power and configurability of Emacs to, say, AppleWorks or Microsoft
Word, two programs most Mac and Windows users are familiar with.  

Most Mac/Windows people think those are powerful programs, but
compared to Emacs, they are relatively simplistic.  Easier to use,
perhaps, but the tradeoff is that they don't do nearly as much.  On
top of that, the only configurability offered by programs like
AppleWorks or Word is how many toolbars are displayed on the
screen. With Emacs, you can configure just about anything you want.
Just try to run your coffeemaker with Word!

The change in the look and feel of Emacs is quite dramatic, but seems
to have done nothing to lessen the application and may make it more
appealing to a wider audience, which would be a good thing.  I'm
really impressed with the improvements in version 21.2.1, and will
keep my eyes peeled for 21.3.

Re: Dramatic upgrade (was active URLs in Gnus)

[Tim McNamara]

Klaus Berndl <klaus.berndl@sdm.de> writes:

> On 08 Nov 2003, David Kastrup wrote:
>
> >  Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> writes:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > > I feel like I've suddenly come out of the Bronze Age or
> > > something!  Long term users may not quite recall the sense of
> > > amazement that one gets after changing from standard-issue GUI
> > > word processors and such to something with the power that Emacs
> > > has.  Yikes!
> >  
> >  If you want to see impressive screen shots of the new display
> >  engine in useful action, take a look at
> >  <URL:http://preview-latex.sourceforge.net>.
> 
> Maybe not so impressive as preview-latex but in the
> Screenshots-section of ECB at http://ecb.sourceforge.net there is a
> further example what is possible with the new display engine - see
> the left/top-most screenshot
> (http://ecb.sourceforge.net/screenshots/1.png).

Wow.  The evolution from Emacs from an ASCII terminal application to a
powerful, fully-graphical environment is amazing.  And I only know the
tip of the iceberg as yet.

Re: Dramatic upgrade (was active URLs in Gnus)

[David Kastrup]

Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> writes:

> The change in the look and feel of Emacs is quite dramatic, but
> seems to have done nothing to lessen the application and may make it
> more appealing to a wider audience, which would be a good thing.
> I'm really impressed with the improvements in version 21.2.1, and
> will keep my eyes peeled for 21.3.

21.3 is a bug fix release to 21.2 and has been out for months.  The
thing to keep your eyes peeled for is what may become of the current
CVS version (not sure yet whether 21.4 will again just be bugfix).

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: Dramatic upgrade (was active URLs in Gnus)

[Tim McNamara]

David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:

> Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> writes:
> 
> > The change in the look and feel of Emacs is quite dramatic, but
> > seems to have done nothing to lessen the application and may make
> > it more appealing to a wider audience, which would be a good
> > thing.  I'm really impressed with the improvements in version
> > 21.2.1, and will keep my eyes peeled for 21.3.
> 
> 21.3 is a bug fix release to 21.2 and has been out for months.  The
> thing to keep your eyes peeled for is what may become of the current
> CVS version (not sure yet whether 21.4 will again just be bugfix).

Well, I don't have the skills or resources to compile from source so
I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for a precompiled binary for OS X
10.1.5 to run under XDarwin.  Kind of complicated and rather limiting.
fink makes this stuff easier, I know.  Once OS X/Aqua is integrated
into the source code it will become much easier.  Rumor has it this
will happen in 21.4.

Re: Dramatic upgrade (was active URLs in Gnus)

[David Kastrup]

Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> writes:

> David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> Well, I don't have the skills or resources to compile from source so
> I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for a precompiled binary for OS X
> 10.1.5 to run under XDarwin.  Kind of complicated and rather
> limiting.  fink makes this stuff easier, I know.  Once OS X/Aqua is
> integrated into the source code it will become much easier.  Rumor
> has it this will happen in 21.4.

Wishful thinking, I suppose.  You don't need to rely on rumor: the
CVS source is publicly available.  Read the relevant docs at

<URL:http://savannah.gnu.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/emacs/emacs/mac/>

Apart from the missing features mentioned in the README it might be
worth noting that Andrew Choi has just resigned as maintainer of the
Mac port on the emacs-devel list, and no successor would be in sight.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: Dramatic upgrade (was active URLs in Gnus)

[Tim McNamara]

David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:

> Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> writes:
> 
> > David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:
> > 
> > Well, I don't have the skills or resources to compile from source
> > so I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for a precompiled binary for OS
> > X 10.1.5 to run under XDarwin.  Kind of complicated and rather
> > limiting.  fink makes this stuff easier, I know.  Once OS X/Aqua
> > is integrated into the source code it will become much easier.
> > Rumor has it this will happen in 21.4.
> 
> Wishful thinking, I suppose.  You don't need to rely on rumor: the
> CVS source is publicly available.  Read the relevant docs at
> 
> <URL:http://savannah.gnu.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/emacs/emacs/mac/>
> 
> Apart from the missing features mentioned in the README it might be
> worth noting that Andrew Choi has just resigned as maintainer of the
> Mac port on the emacs-devel list, and no successor would be in
> sight.

Ah.  The rumor was, in fact, on Andrew's Web site when he stated his
patches were going to be merged into the main source tree with 21.4.
Bummer if that didn't/doesn't happen and even bigger bummer if Andrew
has stepped aside.  Patching *nix software to be compileable and to
run under OS X/Aqua is non-trivial (easier to make stuff work under
XDarwin since that relies on XFree86).  I may have to learn how to
compile from source after all...

Re: Dramatic upgrade (was active URLs in Gnus)

[David Kastrup]

Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> writes:

> David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> writes:
> > 
> > > David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:
> > > 
> > > Well, I don't have the skills or resources to compile from
> > > source so I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for a precompiled
> > > binary for OS X 10.1.5 to run under XDarwin.  Kind of
> > > complicated and rather limiting.  fink makes this stuff easier,
> > > I know.  Once OS X/Aqua is integrated into the source code it
> > > will become much easier.  Rumor has it this will happen in 21.4.
> > 
> > Wishful thinking, I suppose.  You don't need to rely on rumor: the
> > CVS source is publicly available.  Read the relevant docs at
> > 
> > <URL:http://savannah.gnu.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/emacs/emacs/mac/>
> > 
> > Apart from the missing features mentioned in the README it might
> > be worth noting that Andrew Choi has just resigned as maintainer
> > of the Mac port on the emacs-devel list, and no successor would be
> > in sight.
> 
> Ah.  The rumor was, in fact, on Andrew's Web site when he stated his
> patches were going to be merged into the main source tree with 21.4.

That will still happen, I think (after all, the stuff is in CVS
already), but the functionality is not the full functionality that
the X and Windows versions have.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum