RE: Re: A nice feature to suggest

RE: Re: A nice feature to suggest

[Egli Christian (KIRO 43)]

Hi all

> Maybe not directly related, but still: what about my past suggestion
> of a static (unfoldable) but active headline?  

> The syntax i suggested for it was like:

>  **: a headline

> It would be convenient when you need to store inline tasks that are
> neither proper headlines nor list items.  Such a headline wouldn't
> (un)fold, not because its content must stay invisible, but because it
> has no content.

What is the use case for this?

> Does that make sense ?

Not to me. What is this for? Makes it complicated to explain (on the
mailing list and in the manual. "Why does my node not fold"). Makes the
code complex.

Christian

Re: Re: A nice feature to suggest

[Bastien]

"Egli Christian (KIRO 43)" <christian.egli@credit-suisse.com> writes:

>>  **: a headline
>
>> It would be convenient when you need to store inline tasks that are
>> neither proper headlines nor list items.  Such a headline wouldn't
>> (un)fold, not because its content must stay invisible, but because it
>> has no content.
>
> What is the use case for this?

For example : 

  * A new project

  Here is some content describing the expected process for a project.
  Then i want to list some preliminary scheduled tasks to organize a
  few things :

  **: SOMEDAY Build a website
  **: NEXT Set up a discussion list
  
  Then i continue describing the project.  My point is that this very
  three lines of content are not related to the headline "Set up a
  discussion list", but to the headline "A new project".

For now, i use list items like this :

  - [ ] Build a website
  - [ ] Set up a discussion list

But i can't add tags, schedule or archive them, etc., as you do with
other kinds of (headlined) tasks.  Does this describtion make more
sense for you ?

...

I'm aware this might first be confusing for the user, because this is
not the general approach of org-mode.  And i'm also aware this might
be a very specific need.  But i like org-mode for its flexibility and
this was just a suggestion concerning "unfoldable" headline (while we
were at it).

Hope that makes more sens now :)

Best,

-- 
Bastien

Re: Re: A nice feature to suggest

[Daniel J. Sinder]

Bastien wrote:
> "Egli Christian (KIRO 43)" <christian.egli@credit-suisse.com> writes:
> 
>>>  **: a headline
>>> It would be convenient when you need to store inline tasks that are
>>> neither proper headlines nor list items.  Such a headline wouldn't
>>> (un)fold, not because its content must stay invisible, but because it
>>> has no content.
>> What is the use case for this?
> 
> For example : 
> 
>   * A new project
> 
>   Here is some content describing the expected process for a project.
>   Then i want to list some preliminary scheduled tasks to organize a
>   few things :
> 
>   **: SOMEDAY Build a website
>   **: NEXT Set up a discussion list
>   
>   Then i continue describing the project.  My point is that this very
>   three lines of content are not related to the headline "Set up a
>   discussion list", but to the headline "A new project".
> 
> For now, i use list items like this :
> 
>   - [ ] Build a website
>   - [ ] Set up a discussion list
> 
> But i can't add tags, schedule or archive them, etc., as you do with
> other kinds of (headlined) tasks.  Does this describtion make more
> sense for you ?
> 
> ...
> 
> I'm aware this might first be confusing for the user, because this is
> not the general approach of org-mode.  And i'm also aware this might
> be a very specific need.  But i like org-mode for its flexibility and
> this was just a suggestion concerning "unfoldable" headline (while we
> were at it).
> 
> Hope that makes more sens now :)
> 
> Best,
> 

This is much clearer to me, for one, and I see how the need can
arise.  But it appears somewhat redundant in that you could always
re-organize your file to achieve the same effect (at the cost of a
deeper hierarchy).  For example:

* A new project
** Expected process
   Here is some content, etc.
*** SOMEDAY Build a website
*** NEXT Set up a discussion list
** Additional details
   Then continue describing the project.


Dan

Re: Re: A nice feature to suggest

[Bastien]

"Daniel J. Sinder" <djsinder@gmail.com> writes:

> This is much clearer to me, for one, and I see how the need can
> arise.  But it appears somewhat redundant in that you could always
> re-organize your file to achieve the same effect (at the cost of a
> deeper hierarchy).

Fair enough -- i may try this workaround someday.

Thanks!

-- 
Bastien

A nice feature to suggest

[Leo]

Hello Carsten,

In org, if a subtree has a ARCHIVE tag, it will stay collapsed in
visibility cycling. I found this functionality useful in two cases:

  - When archive location is in the same file as .org file
  - A tree with REPEATing items.

Thus, I suggest if a heading of a subtree starts with '+', it will
behave similar to a ARCHIVE tag during visibility cycling. For
example, "** +Arhived Tasks...".

Comments?

Regards,
-- 
Leo <sdl.web AT gmail.com>                         (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)

Re: A nice feature to suggest

[Carsten Dominik]

Why don't you "misuse" the ARCHIVE tag for this?  You could change the
name of the tag to LOCK or something?  Or maybe we could have a list of 
tags that causes this behavior.

Hmmm, I guess you still want these to contribute to sparse trees and 
the agenda.... ?

- Carsten

On Feb 10, 2007, at 5:05, Leo wrote:

> Hello Carsten,
>
> In org, if a subtree has a ARCHIVE tag, it will stay collapsed in
> visibility cycling. I found this functionality useful in two cases:
>
>   - When archive location is in the same file as .org file
>   - A tree with REPEATing items.
>
> Thus, I suggest if a heading of a subtree starts with '+', it will
> behave similar to a ARCHIVE tag during visibility cycling. For
> example, "** +Arhived Tasks...".
>
> Comments?
>
> Regards,
> -- 
> Leo <sdl.web AT gmail.com>                         (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
>

--
Carsten Dominik
Sterrenkundig Instituut "Anton Pannekoek"
Universiteit van Amsterdam
Kruislaan 403
NL-1098SJ Amsterdam
phone: +31 20 525 7477

Re: A nice feature to suggest

[Leo]

On 2007-02-11, Carsten Dominik said:

> Why don't you "misuse" the ARCHIVE tag for this?  You could change
> the name of the tag to LOCK or something?  Or maybe we could have a
> list of tags that causes this behavior.

For example, if I set "#+ARCHIVE: ::* Archived Tasks" and ARCHIVE tag
"* Archived Tasks", then future archiving (org-archive-subtree) will
create another "* Archived Tasks". Is this intended?

> Hmmm, I guess you still want these to contribute to sparse trees and
> the agenda.... ?
>
> - Carsten
> On Feb 10, 2007, at 5:05, Leo wrote:
>
>> Hello Carsten,
>>
>> In org, if a subtree has a ARCHIVE tag, it will stay collapsed in
>> visibility cycling. I found this functionality useful in two cases:
>>
>>   - When archive location is in the same file as .org file
>>   - A tree with REPEATing items.
>>
>> Thus, I suggest if a heading of a subtree starts with '+', it will
>> behave similar to a ARCHIVE tag during visibility cycling. For
>> example, "** +Arhived Tasks...".
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>> Regards,
>> -- 
>> Leo <sdl.web AT gmail.com>                         (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>
>>

-- 
Leo <sdl.web AT gmail.com>                         (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)

Re: Re: A nice feature to suggest

[Carsten Dominik]

On Feb 11, 2007, at 11:37, Leo wrote:

> On 2007-02-11, Carsten Dominik said:
>
>> Why don't you "misuse" the ARCHIVE tag for this?  You could change
>> the name of the tag to LOCK or something?  Or maybe we could have a
>> list of tags that causes this behavior.
>
> For example, if I set "#+ARCHIVE: ::* Archived Tasks" and ARCHIVE tag
> "* Archived Tasks", then future archiving (org-archive-subtree) will
> create another "* Archived Tasks". Is this intended?

I have fixed this bug for 4.66.  Is there then still need for an 
additional way to lock entries from unfolding?

- Carsten


>
>> Hmmm, I guess you still want these to contribute to sparse trees and
>> the agenda.... ?
>>
>> - Carsten
>> On Feb 10, 2007, at 5:05, Leo wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Carsten,
>>>
>>> In org, if a subtree has a ARCHIVE tag, it will stay collapsed in
>>> visibility cycling. I found this functionality useful in two cases:
>>>
>>>   - When archive location is in the same file as .org file
>>>   - A tree with REPEATing items.
>>>
>>> Thus, I suggest if a heading of a subtree starts with '+', it will
>>> behave similar to a ARCHIVE tag during visibility cycling. For
>>> example, "** +Arhived Tasks...".
>>>
>>> Comments?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> -- 
>>> Leo <sdl.web AT gmail.com>                         (GPG Key: 
>>> 9283AA3F)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>>
>>>
>
> -- 
> Leo <sdl.web AT gmail.com>                         (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
>

--
Carsten Dominik
Sterrenkundig Instituut "Anton Pannekoek"
Universiteit van Amsterdam
Kruislaan 403
NL-1098SJ Amsterdam
phone: +31 20 525 7477

Re: A nice feature to suggest

[Leo]

On 2007-02-18, Carsten Dominik said:

> On Feb 11, 2007, at 11:37, Leo wrote:
>
>> On 2007-02-11, Carsten Dominik said:
>>
>>> Why don't you "misuse" the ARCHIVE tag for this?  You could change
>>> the name of the tag to LOCK or something?  Or maybe we could have a
>>> list of tags that causes this behavior.
>>
>> For example, if I set "#+ARCHIVE: ::* Archived Tasks" and ARCHIVE tag
>> "* Archived Tasks", then future archiving (org-archive-subtree) will
>> create another "* Archived Tasks". Is this intended?
>
> I have fixed this bug for 4.66.  Is there then still need for an
> additional way to lock entries from unfolding?
>
> - Carsten

Seems nobody else is interesting in this. Let's leave it for a while.

-- 
Leo <sdl.web AT gmail.com>                         (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)

Re: Re: A nice feature to suggest

[Bastien]

Leo <sdl.web@gmail.com> writes:

>>> For example, if I set "#+ARCHIVE: ::* Archived Tasks" and ARCHIVE tag
>>> "* Archived Tasks", then future archiving (org-archive-subtree) will
>>> create another "* Archived Tasks". Is this intended?
>>
>> I have fixed this bug for 4.66.  Is there then still need for an
>> additional way to lock entries from unfolding?

Maybe not directly related, but still: what about my past suggestion
of a static (unfoldable) but active headline?  

The syntax i suggested for it was like:

  **: a headline

It would be convenient when you need to store inline tasks that are
neither proper headlines nor list items.  Such a headline wouldn't
(un)fold, not because its content must stay invisible, but because it
has no content.

Does that make sense ?

Regards,

-- 
Bastien