From: "John Wiegley" <johnw@newartisans.com>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 14:52:14 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <m237xh844x.fsf@newartisans.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87io6dl0h0.fsf@wanadoo.es> ("Óscar Fuentes"'s message of "Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:32:59 +0200")
>>>>> Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es> writes:
> In large part because that reason, there are key are parts of the C core
> that are only understood by one active hacker (being optimistic here). This
> is a huge liability for Emacs. I don't know how this fact fits the "C is
> working for us" stance.
Of all the languages I know, I can't think of one that gives us everything we
need: stability, performance, portability, a large potential contributor base
(people who know C can learn the macro system Emacs uses), debugging tools,
etc.
The C core needs experts, not so much in C, but at writing display engines and
algorithms important to Emacs. I find it hard to believe that the "Lisp in C"
macros we use on the C side to allow seamless integration are the stumbling
point for those who want to contribute. Am I wrong in this? Has this turned
people away from working on Emacs core?
C works for us because it does what it says on the tin. Emacs runs on a huge
number of systems, is efficient, and the project continues to thrive after
many decades.
I'm against changing "because the grass is greener". Give it a decade or so,
and I'd happily join in rewriting the core in Haskell. But when I think about
the difficulty of running on alternative systems (the dependencies alone might
kill us), or non-expert contributors introducing space leaks that only
manifest for specialized use cases... I'll take C any day. C diffs are clear
and concise as to their actual semantic content. This is also a reason Linus
has given for keeping the Linux kernel in C.
I'm not saying I love C. I spent a career working in C, then finally fled for
greener pastures. But show me an alternative that comes even remotely close,
and I'll happily consider it.
John
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-10-11 21:52 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 250+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-10-11 8:11 Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-11 8:17 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-11 22:02 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-11 22:14 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-11 22:37 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-11 22:37 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-11 22:49 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-11 22:51 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-11 23:12 ` Drew Adams
2015-10-12 2:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 15:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 21:30 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-12 20:01 ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-11 8:54 ` Alexis
2015-10-11 10:53 ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-11 11:23 ` Thomas Koch
2015-10-11 13:11 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-11 13:36 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-11 13:39 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-11 13:55 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-11 14:03 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-11 12:52 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-11 12:59 ` Fabrice Popineau
2015-10-11 17:25 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-11 18:32 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-11 19:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-11 19:43 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-11 19:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-11 20:13 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-12 2:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 3:59 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-12 8:12 ` Steinar Bang
2015-10-12 9:36 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-12 10:20 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 12:23 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-12 16:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 20:00 ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-13 2:36 ` Rustom Mody
2015-10-12 10:56 ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-10-11 21:52 ` John Wiegley [this message]
2015-10-12 7:14 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 12:48 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-12 13:22 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-12 14:18 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-12 15:04 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 18:24 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 19:21 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-12 19:39 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 19:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 19:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 20:11 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 20:42 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-12 20:46 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-13 14:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 16:22 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 16:40 ` Drew Adams
2015-10-13 16:49 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 20:40 ` Drew Adams
2015-10-13 4:18 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 6:00 ` immerrr again
2015-10-13 14:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 1:12 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-13 10:01 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 15:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 15:20 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-14 15:04 ` Chris Patti
2015-10-14 15:34 ` Jay Belanger
2015-10-16 12:25 ` Guile-Emacs Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-16 12:03 ` Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-16 13:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 14:55 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-10-16 15:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 15:25 ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-16 15:51 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-16 14:29 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-16 15:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 15:28 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-16 16:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 15:31 ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-16 16:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 19:34 ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-16 19:51 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-16 19:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 20:51 ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-17 5:27 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 7:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 9:44 ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-17 10:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 10:22 ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-18 11:33 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 12:54 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 13:17 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 14:40 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 15:31 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 16:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 16:37 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 16:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 17:06 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 17:11 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 17:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 17:52 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 18:23 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-18 18:35 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 18:53 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-18 19:03 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 19:13 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-18 19:35 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 19:49 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-19 7:59 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 10:50 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-19 10:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-19 11:31 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19 12:04 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19 11:24 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-20 4:18 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-20 7:36 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-20 10:17 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-19 12:26 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 12:53 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19 17:43 ` Tom Tromey
2015-10-19 18:06 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-20 2:46 ` Tom Tromey
2015-10-19 8:46 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19 9:39 ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-19 5:33 ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-26 11:01 ` Alexis
2015-10-18 19:16 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 22:38 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-10-20 7:34 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 16:40 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 16:56 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 17:46 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-19 7:45 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-10-17 15:38 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 16:25 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 16:43 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 17:00 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 16:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 17:03 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 17:08 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 17:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 18:31 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-17 17:04 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 17:32 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 17:42 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 18:34 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 19:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 21:22 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 0:23 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 15:53 ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-18 16:58 ` Tom Tromey
2015-10-18 17:40 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 19:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 20:47 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19 3:55 ` Tom Tromey
2015-10-20 7:33 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 19:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 8:27 ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-13 8:52 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-10-13 10:19 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-13 15:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 19:45 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-13 15:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 16:09 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 20:43 ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-13 16:06 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 20:20 ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-13 21:22 ` emacs IDE features (was: Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language) Andrés Ramírez
2015-10-13 22:13 ` emacs IDE features John Wiegley
2015-10-14 11:11 ` Phillip Lord
2015-10-16 23:13 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-17 7:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 23:51 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 0:48 ` Sacha Chua
2015-10-18 2:34 ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-10-18 17:05 ` Sacha Chua
2015-10-18 17:31 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 16:21 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-19 16:37 ` Christopher Allan Webber
2015-10-18 16:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 17:30 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-19 10:30 ` Phillip Lord
2015-10-20 6:56 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 22:10 ` Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language John Wiegley
2015-10-12 23:00 ` Camm Maguire
2015-10-13 1:38 ` Alexis
2015-10-13 1:40 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-13 23:34 ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-13 23:55 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 5:28 ` Ken Raeburn
2015-10-13 5:39 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 10:13 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-14 1:43 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-13 6:49 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-12 13:50 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 15:17 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-12 15:35 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 16:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 22:39 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-13 11:27 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 11:46 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-10-13 12:02 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 12:21 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-10-13 12:22 ` Mathieu Lirzin
2015-10-13 13:52 ` John Yates
2015-10-13 14:30 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 16:26 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-10-13 16:40 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 14:38 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 13:06 ` Sergey Organov
2015-10-13 14:19 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-10-13 14:39 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 15:21 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-10-13 15:53 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 16:09 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 16:23 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 16:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 16:38 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 15:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 15:42 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 15:32 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-13 16:13 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 21:02 ` Andy Moreton
2015-10-14 8:15 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-14 13:28 ` Andy Moreton
2015-10-14 16:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-14 10:22 ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-14 10:56 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-14 11:14 ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-14 11:33 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-14 12:12 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-14 11:46 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-14 12:29 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-14 11:21 ` Mathieu Lirzin
2015-10-14 16:05 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 16:13 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 15:09 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-12 15:24 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 15:24 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-12 16:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 17:20 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-13 12:02 ` Marcus Harnisch
2015-10-13 23:38 ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-14 1:46 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-14 13:08 ` Marcus Harnisch
2015-10-12 16:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 17:47 ` Steinar Bang
2015-10-12 17:59 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 21:28 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-11 18:36 ` Przemysław Wojnowski
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