From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: bug policy (was Re: Release process) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 08:39:20 -0800 Message-ID: References: <8337wdn6uu.fsf@gnu.org> <86611975jo.fsf_-_@stephe-leake.org> <838u65kxly.fsf@gnu.org> <86mvuk4xxd.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <831tbwlext.fsf@gnu.org> <86oaf0b0gj.fsf_-_@stephe-leake.org> <837flnjixi.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1447347088 16909 80.91.229.3 (12 Nov 2015 16:51:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 16:51:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: john@yates-sheets.org, Stephen Leake , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 12 17:51:12 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Zwv5b-0007Xv-V6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 17:51:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48044 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zwv5b-0003Qw-7g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 11:51:11 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38117) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zwv5N-0003Pg-80 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 11:50:58 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zwv5M-0005ln-4q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 11:50:57 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x232.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::232]:33610) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zwv5H-0005kK-C1; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 11:50:51 -0500 Original-Received: by pabfh17 with SMTP id fh17so69935882pab.0; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 08:50:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=eAoxWyNsmASMdnm+mfBHqyQvIvlz3gXMppdjMPFfuqE=; b=SGOwJWgWjICdRBnEjEjaF/n8+SADL2pYWWT5XUQQFpDFYUvoRHHggMrhFmQoSp6+47 I+JzqkEnnoHi5ico/4XbME/0QEX2sUXinUOqzDE8FGRS6D6S2Uatz9zghFZpoUFZ8GHe 5KhkxXZ+eGVfpBEjoAER9a9NdG551miLoqBdhOEV12SVlfuuqSrGXLhK8UvPP9cHvNbL TqSF98tMW2btqc1YeZQsBbheZJnB9KxMuXqubdI3cVN+iFxQqzjbx6Kv1RLpJO0TOMw0 bzakKknJNez+rsAKN8ZGQRdzxP7fxXuDnzFH5j8HMHkHVC+E3SLi+IF5P+cDkNmxnC0Q EC3w== X-Received: by 10.66.150.165 with SMTP id uj5mr24131915pab.23.1447347050649; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 08:50:50 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Vulcan.attlocal.net (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id qc16sm15724756pab.47.2015.11.12.08.50.49 (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 12 Nov 2015 08:50:49 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Original-Received: by Vulcan.attlocal.net (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5581E10573566; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 08:50:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <837flnjixi.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 12 Nov 2015 18:12:25 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , Stephen Leake , emacs-devel@gnu.org, john@yates-sheets.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::232 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:194253 Archived-At: >>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: > Speaking about which: what exactly is your definition of criticality? We may always need to be somewhere flexible here: Whatever the pride of the developers would not allow to be delivered. If I say "crash bugs", it wouldn't mean all crash bugs, since some are very niche. If I say "crash bugs on GNU systems", we might let a terrible bug slip through on Mac that could have been solved easily. I have a feeling that most engineers, looking at a bug, will have a sense of whether it will be embarrassing to ship with that problem. These should all be promoted to release critical, and demoted only if several other people agree that it shouldn't hold up the release. > We cannot force volunteers do anything, but we can try persuading them. If > we don't, then what do we need project leadership for? The fact is, Emacs *could* slip into a permanent maintenance state, where we never add a single new feature, and work only on bugs very slowly. I could well imagine myself using 24.5 for the next 20 years just fine. But there are annoyances for some that deserve feature work to resolve, and this is what pushes Emacs forward. That, and great ideas that are just too good not to implement. It's hard to motivate people when the status quo is actually pretty darn good. We'll have to think creatively about this, since I really would like our bug database to reach zero at some point. > We need to grow experts in those areas soon enough, or we will start > accumulating grave bugs that no one can solve. I think you've just made it hard for me to fall asleep tonight. John