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From: John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: john@yates-sheets.org,
	Stephen Leake <stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org>,
	emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug policy (was Re: Release process)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 08:39:20 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m237wb18av.fsf@Vulcan.attlocal.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <837flnjixi.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 12 Nov 2015 18:12:25 +0200")

>>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> Speaking about which: what exactly is your definition of criticality?

We may always need to be somewhere flexible here: Whatever the pride of the
developers would not allow to be delivered.

If I say "crash bugs", it wouldn't mean all crash bugs, since some are very
niche. If I say "crash bugs on GNU systems", we might let a terrible bug slip
through on Mac that could have been solved easily.

I have a feeling that most engineers, looking at a bug, will have a sense of
whether it will be embarrassing to ship with that problem. These should all be
promoted to release critical, and demoted only if several other people agree
that it shouldn't hold up the release.

> We cannot force volunteers do anything, but we can try persuading them. If
> we don't, then what do we need project leadership for?

The fact is, Emacs *could* slip into a permanent maintenance state, where we
never add a single new feature, and work only on bugs very slowly. I could
well imagine myself using 24.5 for the next 20 years just fine.

But there are annoyances for some that deserve feature work to resolve, and
this is what pushes Emacs forward. That, and great ideas that are just too
good not to implement.

It's hard to motivate people when the status quo is actually pretty darn good.
We'll have to think creatively about this, since I really would like our bug
database to reach zero at some point.

> We need to grow experts in those areas soon enough, or we will start
> accumulating grave bugs that no one can solve.

I think you've just made it hard for me to fall asleep tonight.

John



  reply	other threads:[~2015-11-12 16:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 139+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-11-10 13:57 Move to a cadence release model? John Yates
2015-11-10 14:28 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 16:42   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-10 17:03     ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11  0:17       ` Release process (was Re: Move to a cadence release model?) Stephen Leake
2015-11-11  0:24         ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11  3:45         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-11 10:45           ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11 15:43             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-11 20:39               ` Too few people taking care of bug reports, was: " Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 20:50                 ` Too few people taking care of bug reports, John Wiegley
2015-11-11 21:03                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 21:06                     ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11 21:14                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-11 21:10                 ` Too few people taking care of bug reports, was: Re: Release process (was Re: Move to a cadence release model?) Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-11 21:15                   ` Too few people taking care of bug reports, John Wiegley
2015-11-11 21:27                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-11 21:23                   ` Too few people taking care of bug reports, was: Re: Release process (was Re: Move to a cadence release model?) Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 21:30                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-11 21:31                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 21:42                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-11 21:54                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 23:06               ` bug policy (was Re: Release process) Stephen Leake
2015-11-12 16:12                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-12 16:39                   ` John Wiegley [this message]
2015-11-12 17:36                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-12 17:50                       ` John Wiegley
2015-11-12 18:04                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-11 16:39             ` Release process (was Re: Move to a cadence release model?) John Wiegley
2015-11-12  8:19               ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-11-17  0:09                 ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-11-12  8:15             ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-11-10 14:32 ` Move to a cadence release model? Alan Mackenzie
2015-11-10 17:13   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-10 17:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-10 17:37   ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-11-10 17:44     ` Automate Emacs UI testing? (was: Move to a cadence release model?) John Wiegley
2015-11-10 18:01       ` Automate Emacs UI testing? Ashton Kemerling
2015-11-10 18:02       ` Automate Emacs UI testing? (was: Move to a cadence release model?) Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-10 19:16       ` Automate Emacs UI testing? joakim
2015-11-10 19:37         ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11 16:59         ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-11 17:18           ` joakim
2015-11-11 23:27             ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-12  2:26               ` official Emacs Docker image (was: Automate Emacs UI testing?) Ted Zlatanov
2015-11-12 15:49                 ` official Emacs Docker image Nic Ferrier
2015-11-12 21:01                   ` Ricardo Wurmus
2015-11-12 22:31                 ` official Emacs Docker image (was: Automate Emacs UI testing?) Richard Stallman
2015-11-12 23:32                   ` official Emacs Docker image joakim
2016-07-06 15:22                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2016-07-07 21:56                     ` Richard Stallman
2016-07-08 13:36                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2016-07-09 16:54                         ` Richard Stallman
2016-07-09 23:04                           ` Ted Zlatanov
2016-07-10 14:25                             ` Richard Stallman
2016-07-12 22:45                             ` John Wiegley
2016-07-13 13:12                               ` Richard Stallman
2016-07-13 16:34                                 ` John Wiegley
2016-12-30  0:10                                   ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-30  0:53                                     ` John Wiegley
2016-12-30 21:36                                       ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-30 22:01                                         ` joakim
2016-12-30 22:08                                         ` John Wiegley
2016-12-31 18:25                                           ` Richard Stallman
2017-01-27 14:56                                             ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-01-27 19:45                                               ` Filipe Silva
2017-01-30 14:36                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-01-30 17:10                                                 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2017-01-30 17:44                                                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-01-31  0:14                                                     ` Filipe Silva
2017-01-31 14:32                                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-02-01  3:03                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2017-02-01 15:25                                                           ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-02-02  2:53                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2017-02-02  5:13                                                               ` Mike Gerwitz
2017-02-02 14:21                                                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-02-03  7:00                                                                 ` Stefan Reichör
2017-02-03 11:18                                                                   ` Filipe Silva
2017-02-04  2:56                                                                     ` Mike Gerwitz
2017-02-03 13:45                                                                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-02-03 21:59                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2017-02-03 23:38                                                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-02-03 23:54                                                                         ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2017-02-04  0:37                                                                           ` Filipe Silva
2017-02-04  1:12                                                                             ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2017-02-04  1:32                                                                               ` Filipe Silva
2017-02-04 23:52                                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2017-02-05  0:24                                                                                 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2017-02-04 23:54                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2017-02-04  3:11                                                                         ` Mike Gerwitz
2017-02-04  4:13                                                                           ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-02-04  4:47                                                                             ` Mike Gerwitz
2017-02-06 10:49                                                                               ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2017-02-13  8:37                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2017-02-13  9:55                                                                                   ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2017-02-14  0:48                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2017-02-14  2:07                                                                                       ` Mike Gerwitz
2017-02-14  2:04                                                                                 ` Mike Gerwitz
2017-02-04 23:54                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2017-02-05  0:47                                                                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-02-04 23:48                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2017-01-28  2:18                                               ` Richard Stallman
2017-02-21 15:01                                               ` Philippe Vaucher
2017-03-02 15:03                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-03-03 10:09                                                   ` Philippe Vaucher
2017-03-03 10:15                                                     ` Philippe Vaucher
2017-03-08 20:30                                                       ` Philippe Vaucher
2017-03-13 10:03                                                         ` Philippe Vaucher
2018-04-04 18:33                                                         ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-12-31 22:04                                         ` Ricardo Wurmus
2017-01-01  5:39                                           ` Elias Mårtenson
2017-01-01  9:03                                             ` Ricardo Wurmus
2017-01-01 10:15                                               ` Elias Mårtenson
2017-01-06 15:56                                                 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2017-01-07 23:19                                                   ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-12-31  1:22                                       ` Yann Hodique
2016-12-31  2:08                                         ` John Wiegley
2017-01-28 11:06                                       ` Alex Bennée
2016-12-31 10:11                                     ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-07-13 14:41                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2015-11-12 11:36         ` Automate Emacs UI testing? Mathieu Lirzin
2015-11-12 11:43           ` joakim
2015-11-10 18:20 ` Move to a cadence release model? Richard Stallman
2015-11-10 23:50   ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-11-10 23:58     ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11  1:55       ` John Yates
2015-11-11  9:02         ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-11-11 15:37         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-12 22:35         ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-11 15:49       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-12 11:27         ` Stelian Iancu
2015-11-12 16:22           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-12 16:44             ` Stelian Iancu
2015-11-12 16:57               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-11 15:48     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-12  7:23       ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-11-12  7:37         ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-11-12 16:15         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-20  3:02 ` Stefan Monnier

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