From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Change Tramp syntax Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 08:54:26 -0700 Message-ID: References: <20170309184457.29604.13048@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20170309184458.08C9725FCF@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <87k27xfo3q.fsf@detlef> <87efy5fmml.fsf@detlef> <87mvcti5he.fsf_-_@detlef> <83shmldumk.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1491234873 972 195.159.176.226 (3 Apr 2017 15:54:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 15:54:33 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.130016 (Ma Gnus v0.16) Emacs/25.2 (darwin) Cc: Michael Albinus , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 03 17:54:29 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cv4JA-0007T8-DL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2017 17:54:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59915 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cv4JG-0002Mi-B2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2017 11:54:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56709) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cv4Ia-0002Lk-97 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2017 11:53:46 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cv4IZ-0000Lf-8o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2017 11:53:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg0-x234.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c05::234]:33593) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cv4IU-0000K3-Hm; Mon, 03 Apr 2017 11:53:38 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg0-x234.google.com with SMTP id x125so124264771pgb.0; Mon, 03 Apr 2017 08:53:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=pDIRyOvgs7AO3nTG7OySejcDTVLJyjdtoOBvrxQqCuI=; b=PNRK2N0XpgOYHGY4OEvdNQ5En8FcLCogtMUSOVzr8MZSnGRfkbWNZqjjxbXY3Nf850 9aNZnHVbSyC4QZ3MgZov6AGEaIaDkBVTESE0myGwvQLGctKYuifH2waMOxxQvARs4/F4 LutLMKrPRHXeQml0JF7tsgBe2NY/LxnKSwIchkmUUxa8sG9oT7KJFD1EmUMSVQSfAndy 9b2pYpDne+/SmEQl7EPACs3IqwRrbt2ayxXrxNLN7ZZZ7Z/KLkIacCtdZiZIaxN/UHgd X9txZuHibIJfvP4HcbUwY0Xey4/S6cqiYLi+5JLaO/LAhtSGxQqfsjIB3Sol21H8uar/ vx3A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=pDIRyOvgs7AO3nTG7OySejcDTVLJyjdtoOBvrxQqCuI=; b=Si6GaLR+bk7W0/9cfRhky/CSXPDFZ3/NbisLXqwWt2jWr+kMg8vqbEXjNDOdEI0Rd1 bV+avGNIm9LX4tu9vJUcft2W+Hrvcuj5XSCe7WDCw0cLhXpGql/MASvyoGGh25wX6qQr uUrN0JfgqsLrr5pn5Jz885pwBWEtDqMrISKejK1s+gVw2l6b/0/qLx9AuG1Ccu4g9BxP PF2C+xLNMAiwRfKCGZ1BTV0CWfDHRqNsmgAJv9FquyFHvFTQvan/54/SseyjWv5x878N GxKoDcVe7w2TgOZPCukpa9uhQ+BdEmmG5jjVpSTtvxWXOq0QPrHy2gsTM9ygJhKzQvyl gV0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H3G4qdcq82qD2bJP4DWyWj9PrLCVKJvokGib2kC63J+R3JCjpCuiQ2Gi+Isu9MehQ== X-Received: by 10.99.44.209 with SMTP id s200mr19131411pgs.25.1491234817521; Mon, 03 Apr 2017 08:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.69.149]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 65sm20459377pgc.1.2017.04.03.08.53.36 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 03 Apr 2017 08:53:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id A09D73595888; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 08:54:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83shmldumk.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 10 Mar 2017 17:22:27 +0200") Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , Michael Albinus , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c05::234 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:213615 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> "EZ" =3D=3D Eli Zaretskii writes: EZ> I didn't use ange-ftp syntax in a decade. Not sure what others do, but = my EZ> impression is that Tramp methods are the only game in town. I use the ange-ftp syntax multiple times a day, for years now. It's how I edit files on remote hosts. Changing from "/host:file" to "/-:host:file" seems like an unnecessary chan= ge in syntax -- when the first form is so easy to use -- but only because I do= n't understand the difficulties it causes. However, I imagine many users, who l= ike me are long-familiar with the first form, will wonder why we had to move to= a more complex syntax *when the first one has been working for years and year= s*. How are people using the new Tramp to learn that "/-:" is replaced by "/"? Will "/host:file" just be broken for them, and they have to understand both (1) that it's a Tramp-related issue, and (2) how to find the answer in the Tramp manual or NEWS file? If there are more people like me out there, relying on this syntax as heavi= ly, I have a sense this is going to feel like a concession that does not benefit the user. Unless I'm mistaken, the user gains nothing from the change, but = now has to remember to add "-:" to path names long since burned into finger memory. =2D Is there *any way* to retain ange-ftp syntax, maybe even as a hack that rewrites /foo:bar into /-:foo:bar, and can be required from a compat modu= le? =2D What is the user experience when ange-ftp paths are used, after this ch= ange is made? Thanks, =2D-=20 John Wiegley GPG fingerprint =3D 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAEBCgAdFiEE3lW3afxXihSlvlQwwUTY9PGf5jAFAljicDIACgkQwUTY9PGf 5jDnBgwAzEqvhxrH2GKUG7MN5yRwwQbp7Uqm53vRZHvPM79sJOqToLq/6GxURUHw JbpI05zrpykchtgK/McUuPP78LkkejbLOmBaTzb7cHzStJ75kfb9EI7n3Ndc6DoS 4hsDTP0eZNznNr/57fHOZyPJ3q0Jhpix4hNTV+Y9BCfGLqMHCLth7EqQEiSajOu8 twTTZ0JlN/Nzqngu82BnEVQTjdXjKySUonApzIfmXqn5B5nHfLTYoH1VLAmat3x0 6v5ETRfHuiWx2qpqggycMgBFpftVeWd6EpQZmCFpLRnAgxIqMRYRBt1SgBycCQKj S7rMJ45D7jMSee2OD8G/IU5TY1AFJER3olikxQiax1rLlFt2mnmEPrQY7bTa0ihf Hk0kss2nDr0WOyXouy0+8CI3kDnc8Q06kZ2TFCKeFWz3gbeCUDV5SHoDUdVp2Fsd 19CBVjN1rA1PB/7Xs1kZnIGr/qu0RkOcENKniVGnLds6BfxWegwt9QJWLawcZMws 8L1UctWN =eaPP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--