From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Paul W. Rankin" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Why is Elisp slow? Date: Sun, 05 May 2019 15:25:59 +1000 Message-ID: References: <83muk4obfd.fsf@gnu.org> <20190502214006.4fdsinp7u5xuqvdv@Ergus> <20190503004416.xfuzzucflp6bxpuz@Ergus> <20190503103644.63lccjehmzulaojn@Ergus> <456EE4D4-F542-4F6A-B146-E6B9D72AE93B@icloud.com> <83tvebn1we.fsf@gnu.org> <20190503125832.44ovncaxp3vyjsla@Ergus> <20190504133218.g3ysx3ksuyvlthg3@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="62372"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 26.2 Cc: Stefan Monnier To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 05 07:26:26 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hN9fM-000G6I-PY for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 05 May 2019 07:26:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36630 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hN9fL-0003ye-LD for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 05 May 2019 01:26:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56248) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hN9fA-0003yK-NY for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2019 01:26:13 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hN9f9-0001F4-IS for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2019 01:26:12 -0400 Original-Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.24]:46819) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hN9f9-0001EV-6d for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2019 01:26:11 -0400 Original-Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C4CF2F6; Sun, 5 May 2019 01:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 05 May 2019 01:26:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=paulwrankin.com; h=references:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm3; bh=lHdGZPDzkXDIhknzcZjkjt2XL/ JT3x8odOoX/zxyhuM=; b=eKddvv2bMOz1tezd0gmG+y5jxO5kkiQC5Gj0vR+L+v YpXzwnIRTeFMfMBlB6NkATB9ZcpWecIMcdHVyKQd5qOTwQHtJenulXdXI6MUTT6n X3YQLsuoREEKW3sVWHQGdRV7IoyAIL6Ie+MfLF70Ly8i877vyHpz2FBqWs1oUySH MsP4G0Qn3eM6dSZ7RDXiqpsYyTpzWSqEXA1dc8Uvk85vx1c4myiFOSbFlr2lLKkX 6Ki6q5YkZuma/1+gGFnjLRHoVVF1CigWY/B57OTlN77dZ6FSfOW+CSgIeMFvCE3l jUqkLK4XVgfEq40CDBsHvnc+m0bT9Ao6ICgDYb/wvi8w== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=lHdGZP DzkXDIhknzcZjkjt2XL/JT3x8odOoX/zxyhuM=; b=ciCOUuAAVe7v7Vrfan78lH mlBrGQjmbsr8B5x15Y7hu3nC1PIdV0y5jI3Zj4/wfEdV9I+u8/FJcwh1V2QPe8oQ DAKAiaYdEK8yphOZBNibUxdejYpG6J2ez766Wtu3jYjccmk6Ke1Pbs8lcaE2xPmY SwH1L3/4Os/9hcBrPKaCGTgt6iMGGTmBtXCObmaCNZhnwQncDQKzs5Rxbmslg+YS xLyyITDgXaLNp6yoE9pr6pE17uZN3Y9XouWow6H69UsTPwxAjL5+JxutS03Xc2q6 dGQkwW5SX/oa5NZrsTW1Spt+riaS5AKQmeI81cxlBTV3E6NSQ9T50NnIsptf0uhw == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduuddrjeeggdeliecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpehffgfhvffujgffkfggtgesthdtredttdertdenucfhrhhomhepfdfrrghulhcu hgdrucftrghnkhhinhdfuceohhgvlhhlohesphgruhhlfihrrghnkhhinhdrtghomheqne cuffhomhgrihhnpehgihhtqdhsvghnugdqvghmrghilhdrihhopdhprghulhifrhgrnhhk ihhnrdgtohhmnecukfhppeduvddtrddvvddrudeifedrvddujeenucfrrghrrghmpehmrg hilhhfrhhomhephhgvlhhlohesphgruhhlfihrrghnkhhinhdrtghomhenucevlhhushht vghrufhiiigvpedt X-ME-Proxy: Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [120.22.163.217]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 1963F103D1; Sun, 5 May 2019 01:26:05 -0400 (EDT) In-reply-to: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 64.147.123.24 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120203 Archived-At: On Sun, May 05 2019, Ergus wrote: > I totally agree with the complexity of mixing languages; but if we > look around it is very difficult to attract new users and developers > if they need to learn a new (old fashion) language only for Emacs (as > I have been doing the last months). New programmers generations only > know python and some C-like languages but specially OOP and maybe is > the moment to think a bit in the future of the project more than in > the past. Even if that implies taking some risks and make hard > desitions. Just give a look how popular are sublime text or athom, > that compared to Emacs those are kid toys. > > So at some point it will be needed to make this desitions because the > old developers will not live forever. I see the beauty of Lisp, but I > am talking more about a human issue here, that is more critical for > Emacs right now and for the future. I don't understand this sentiment. Is there some emergency in Emacs development that I'm unaware of? Development seems faster and stronger than it ever has in the decade or so I've been using Emacs -- there's a new major release every year or so, and with the addition of package.el there's the introduction of third-party package archives and the explosion that is MELPA. The possibility of the current Emacs developers all dying out is not something anyone needs to worry about for at least another 30-40 years, and I'm pretty sure we (the human race) will have vastly different concerns by then. But even if we reach a point where there is no one left maintaining/developing/using Emacs, it's open source code... someone will discover it and if they find it useful or interesting, they will continue developing it. Open source code can never really die. Where does this fear come from that an open source project will die if it doesn't keep changing? > For the developers it is also easier to join to those projects because > they are hosted on Github/gitlab with a more familiar workflow and > interface, no copyright procedure, no mailing list.... and everything > in the same please and integrate with a fork based workflow. You can > see where I'm going right? If a possible contributor has cloned a project repository to their own machine and has made some changes, the fork-based workflow requires that they: create an account at the origin project's GitHub or GitLab (or the project's GitLab instance), create a forked repository there, add the fork as a remote on their machine, push the changes, then open a pull request. Once you use a git send-email workflow, this fork-based workflow will seem convoluted and unnecessarily centralised. All a contributor need do is clone the project repository, commit some changes then run: git send-email HEAD^ And send the email to the project's owner/mailing list. No account creation necessary. Check out: https://git-send-email.io/ Yes the copyright assignment procedure is a deterrent to contributing to Emacs/ELPA; this discussion is probably for another thread. -- https://www.paulwrankin.com