* Collaborate with heretics @ 2009-11-25 15:59 andrea 2009-11-26 12:48 ` andrea 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: andrea @ 2009-11-25 15:59 UTC (permalink / raw To: emacs-orgmode In university projects I use org-mode for writing assignments and everything else I need to. Given that the output is wonderful and it's just text my group mates were very happy or at least didn't offer another alternative. But the problem is that those people are not emacs users. One actually is but he still didn't get the beauty of org-mode. Anyway in this way they insert text and then I have to fix all the indentation/style errors that are normally done by people not using it. So the question is, is there another way to edit org-file not from inside emacs? Just simple editing (struct-mode and table-mode) would be more than enough, it doesn't need to have all the power it has normally.... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Collaborate with heretics 2009-11-25 15:59 Collaborate with heretics andrea @ 2009-11-26 12:48 ` andrea 2009-11-26 15:25 ` Scot Becker 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: andrea @ 2009-11-26 12:48 UTC (permalink / raw To: emacs-orgmode andrea <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes: Sorry for the double post, I thought I had an error and didn't listen to gnus when it was saying it was a duplicate. Anyway I did some researches and I only noticed that there are vim users looking for something equivalent to org-mode for vim. To simplify things at maximum I think just keeping orgstruct without even tables would be already something. Is there a complete grammar somewhere? I could try to write something for textmate, the only editor I know which is so easily configurable... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Collaborate with heretics 2009-11-26 12:48 ` andrea @ 2009-11-26 15:25 ` Scot Becker 2009-11-26 19:35 ` andrea 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Scot Becker @ 2009-11-26 15:25 UTC (permalink / raw To: andrea; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Yours is an interesting question, and it's one I've thought about as well. I have a friend just starting a PhD, and she was asking me how I keep my work. Org+emacs is great for me. I sometimes also think anyone who needs a robust tool and can muster the patience to learn it should try org/Emacs. But then I shake my head. I'm still just a beginner after a year, unable to muster more than the simplest elisp, forever forgetting bindings and printing out new lists to past to my office walls. Emacs has come along with the times in some very nice ways, but, friends, it's /hard/. My friend is not a big fan of computers (wants to 'do work', imagine!) So I had a hard time recommending it to her. I don't mean to push Andrea's question off topic. We could debate that statement. I debate it myself all the time. (Is Emacs hard or is it easy?) But it's at least arguably hard. Or rather, it's hard to stick only to the easy stuff. As to Andrea's question. It's true that most editors aren't capable of producing a full implementation of something like org-mode (is any?), but perhaps one or two implementations of org-lite would be a useful thing, for collaboration, and for beginners. It could perhaps even use the org-mobile framework. And about the full 'spec'. I think the best we've got is the manual. which is not bad, though it's not a full spec in the same way as the Restructured Text manual. Scot On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 12:48 PM, andrea <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> wrote: > andrea <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes: > > Sorry for the double post, I thought I had an error and didn't listen to > gnus when it was saying it was a duplicate. > > Anyway I did some researches and I only noticed that there are vim users > looking for something equivalent to org-mode for vim. > > To simplify things at maximum I think just keeping orgstruct without > even tables would be already something. > > Is there a complete grammar somewhere? > > I could try to write something for textmate, the only editor I know > which is so easily configurable... > > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Collaborate with heretics 2009-11-26 15:25 ` Scot Becker @ 2009-11-26 19:35 ` andrea 2009-11-30 8:37 ` Sébastien Vauban 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: andrea @ 2009-11-26 19:35 UTC (permalink / raw To: emacs-orgmode I try to be a prophet of emacs and org-mode but sometimes it's just a loss of time. Even very skilled informatics weren't convinced, sometimes they didn't like it sometimes they just didn't want to spend time on it. Once it happened that a friend of mine that was working with excel tables saw how the text was flowing nicely on my org-mode buffer. He was amazed and wanted to know everything and use it. I was very happy about and I installed all the necessary, but then it didn't work out. It's just too "alien" for people used to work with office (bleah). Emacs is not easy, org-mode also adds a lot of complexity (even if it's really elegant and clear), and if both are not used daily it could become more a pain than a pleasure. But I'm convinced there's nothing more powerful on earth than org-mode for working with plain text files. So my question is a bit egoistic in fact, I want it whenever possible also forcing other people to do it. The other way for serious work is anyway latex, which is not at all easier to manage. Regarding the org-lite, I think it's quite difficult to create it, the text manipulation which is done is really dynamic, a normal grammar would not be enough. But I guess in org-mobile there's code that could be very useful for an org-lite, is there a plan to port that program to osx/windows/linux? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Collaborate with heretics 2009-11-26 19:35 ` andrea @ 2009-11-30 8:37 ` Sébastien Vauban 2009-11-30 13:34 ` Raffi R 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Sébastien Vauban @ 2009-11-30 8:37 UTC (permalink / raw To: emacs-orgmode-mXXj517/zsQ Hi Andrea, andrea wrote: > I try to be a prophet of emacs and org-mode but sometimes it's just a > loss of time. > Even very skilled informatics weren't convinced, sometimes they didn't > like it sometimes they just didn't want to spend time on it. > > Once it happened that a friend of mine that was working with excel > tables saw how the text was flowing nicely on my org-mode buffer. > He was amazed and wanted to know everything and use it. > > I was very happy about and I installed all the necessary, but then it > didn't work out. > It's just too "alien" for people used to work with office (bleah). > > Emacs is not easy, org-mode also adds a lot of complexity (even if it's > really elegant and clear), and if both are not used daily it could > become more a pain than a pleasure. > > But I'm convinced there's nothing more powerful on earth than org-mode > for working with plain text files. > > So my question is a bit egoistic in fact, I want it whenever possible > also forcing other people to do it. > > The other way for serious work is anyway latex, which is not at all > easier to manage. I completely share your observations, and your convictions on this (Emacs, Org-mode and LaTeX). I must admit, as well, that I'd have been (and stayed there) in the category of the guys that don't see the advantages of those (and are reluctant because against Emacs and LaTeX because of their unattractive sides) if I hadn't had a colleague in my office that convinced me, thanks to a small set of good chosen points: things that helped me work less for an even better result (such as LaTeX for automatic generation of contents with some bash scripting, or pcl-csv integration into Emacs, with easy diff capabilities, etc.). > Regarding the org-lite, I think it's quite difficult to create it, the > text manipulation which is done is really dynamic, a normal grammar > would not be enough. > > But I guess in org-mobile there's code that could be very useful for > an org-lite, is there a plan to port that program to osx/windows/linux? However, I don't how to get more people on board. It is true (and normal) that it takes a bit more of effort in the beginning. Difficult to avoid that -- that dream is just too much. However, they still are potentialities with the Wiki stuff I'm still assessing (waiting it to be "perfect" before being the prophet in my company): - Blorgit - IkiWiki Best regards, Seb -- Sébastien Vauban _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Collaborate with heretics 2009-11-30 8:37 ` Sébastien Vauban @ 2009-11-30 13:34 ` Raffi R 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Raffi R @ 2009-11-30 13:34 UTC (permalink / raw To: Sébastien Vauban; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Is it possible to introduce Emacs to people using CUA mode? That may make the learning curve gentler. That said, I've found people either take to it or do not, and have not yet been able to lure those who do not over to our side, even when they see how nicely my documents are formatted and how easy it is. 2009/11/30 Sébastien Vauban <wxhgmqzgwmuf@spammotel.com>: > Hi Andrea, > > andrea wrote: >> I try to be a prophet of emacs and org-mode but sometimes it's just a >> loss of time. >> Even very skilled informatics weren't convinced, sometimes they didn't >> like it sometimes they just didn't want to spend time on it. >> >> Once it happened that a friend of mine that was working with excel >> tables saw how the text was flowing nicely on my org-mode buffer. >> He was amazed and wanted to know everything and use it. >> >> I was very happy about and I installed all the necessary, but then it >> didn't work out. >> It's just too "alien" for people used to work with office (bleah). >> >> Emacs is not easy, org-mode also adds a lot of complexity (even if it's >> really elegant and clear), and if both are not used daily it could >> become more a pain than a pleasure. >> >> But I'm convinced there's nothing more powerful on earth than org-mode >> for working with plain text files. >> >> So my question is a bit egoistic in fact, I want it whenever possible >> also forcing other people to do it. >> >> The other way for serious work is anyway latex, which is not at all >> easier to manage. > > I completely share your observations, and your convictions on this (Emacs, > Org-mode and LaTeX). > > I must admit, as well, that I'd have been (and stayed there) in the category > of the guys that don't see the advantages of those (and are reluctant because > against Emacs and LaTeX because of their unattractive sides) if I hadn't had a > colleague in my office that convinced me, thanks to a small set of good chosen > points: things that helped me work less for an even better result (such as > LaTeX for automatic generation of contents with some bash scripting, or > pcl-csv integration into Emacs, with easy diff capabilities, etc.). > > >> Regarding the org-lite, I think it's quite difficult to create it, the >> text manipulation which is done is really dynamic, a normal grammar >> would not be enough. >> >> But I guess in org-mobile there's code that could be very useful for >> an org-lite, is there a plan to port that program to osx/windows/linux? > > However, I don't how to get more people on board. It is true (and normal) that > it takes a bit more of effort in the beginning. Difficult to avoid that -- > that dream is just too much. However, they still are potentialities with the > Wiki stuff I'm still assessing (waiting it to be "perfect" before being the > prophet in my company): > > - Blorgit > - IkiWiki > > Best regards, > Seb > > -- > Sébastien Vauban > > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2009-11-30 13:34 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2009-11-25 15:59 Collaborate with heretics andrea 2009-11-26 12:48 ` andrea 2009-11-26 15:25 ` Scot Becker 2009-11-26 19:35 ` andrea 2009-11-30 8:37 ` Sébastien Vauban 2009-11-30 13:34 ` Raffi R
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