From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eshel Yaron Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: package-autosuggest Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2023 20:26:42 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <3d5ef276-ce6b-9ff0-0c60-1da6b887b365@gutov.dev> <1070e416-2a13-49e0-90d4-fbc526cd461c@app.fastmail.com> <83ttskia84.fsf@gnu.org> <97c96b72-ebba-4853-98d2-86e3ba8bbc05@app.fastmail.com> <83sf84i9ix.fsf@gnu.org> <837cpfhzdm.fsf@gnu.org> <83zg2agjp8.fsf@gnu.org> <87ttshk3ns.fsf@posteo.net> <83il8whjig.fsf@gnu.org> <87fs40oiie.fsf@posteo.net> <838r9shgtz.fsf@gnu.org> <871qfkogy7.fsf@posteo.net> <835y4whd0m.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0nks55d.fsf_-_@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30348"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Philip Kaludercic , Eli Zaretskii , stefankangas@gmail.com, yandros@gmail.com, bozhidar@batsov.dev, dmitry@gutov.dev, rms@gnu.org, danny@dfreeman.email, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 31 20:27:59 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qbmOc-0007aS-Jq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 20:27:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbmNh-0008MM-Jf; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 14:27:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbmNg-0008M4-H1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 14:27:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.eshelyaron.com ([107.175.124.16] helo=eshelyaron.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbmNe-0007XX-Aw; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 14:27:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eshelyaron.com; s=mail; t=1693506416; bh=3OrH92ZTqkY/6A0WOq6l0s+lzTV0Y2lQymHL2Ak0ukM=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=EQ+xjNkX/mZaw+dp2P3bVvDt63IQLNo8UxV0TPsWxQlj5MuW2H54mvgl4wxNEsLo4 A1v0qxZj2an9ONCqx7LLmJf/Qax3EgzA0sQDxibmNxA4gatM0ubcMBEMy3mKe9zoaa 9ZN2Co5gdE0gwJMvrou40dUH8cYG0fDovN2JeZ/M/Lkq2yjxlDnrQNz8LoKYihpVpV +k2Cfavo2A+4aetWwjWJLtNNXsXuOp1VLNtJfsYWCoJ9jR3U7cdvdeGEvOF6X25blF y8ZKDgGqbHQI+/zlurNI/yTiXD84I0V97O934AUj/TAjQNT7MWxI0e6Vums6MzWhHe coJ7K7ReufMXQ== In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Thu, 31 Aug 2023 13:40:27 -0400") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=107.175.124.16; envelope-from=me@eshelyaron.com; helo=eshelyaron.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309691 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >> - Sophisticated: each hint should have a confidence/certainty indicator, >> possibly a symbol among `certain`, `probable`, `possible`. > > AFAICT the code would only suggest the use of the external package when > it's "instead of falling back to `fundamental-mode`", so I think it's > good enough. Fair enough. > Even if it's not the right package, it might help the users realize > that they should look for an appropriate major mode :-) That'd indeed already be an improvement, my point is that in some cases we would know that it really is the right package with very high certainty. From a user perspective, if Emacs package suggestions are sometimes great and sometimes not exactly what they were looking for, it's natural to take all suggestions with a grain of salt. Suggestions with a grain of salt is already a pretty good scenario, of course. But if Emacs would have a special message that it displays when it has a suggestion it's really quite sure about, and those are always right on the money, then the user can learn to confirm those suggestions more freely and keep their second thoughts for the other (less certain) suggestions. So, my suggestion to keep some more metadata is meant to allow Emacs to have such distinctions, perhaps not right off the bat. >> - Manually curated: Emacs should only push suggestions for packages that >> the project whole-heartedly recommends. > > While the quality of the package matters in a certain sense, in practice > the choice of what to include in Emacs or (Non)GNU ELPA comes down to > many other criteria, and there are packages there which I would > *not* recommend (and definitely not "whole-heartedly"). > > Instead, I think the criteria should be based on the likelihood that the > recommendation is helpful. > Here I think we mostly agree. IMO since (Non)GNU ELPA accepts packages that are possibly somewhat work-in-progress, Emacs probably shouldn't automatically recommend them to users, so some manual curation would be needed to guarantee that the recommendation is helpful, as you say. > > Stefan