From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Robert J. Chassell" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: facemenu-unlisted-faces Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:49:09 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: Reply-To: bob@rattlesnake.com NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1152787787 26089 80.91.229.2 (13 Jul 2006 10:49:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:49:47 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 13 12:49:44 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G0yl4-0005a5-Hw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:49:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G0yl4-0006ys-23 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 06:49:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G0ykr-0006yM-UJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 06:49:14 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G0ykq-0006xn-Ii for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 06:49:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G0ykq-0006xk-Ay for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 06:49:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [69.168.108.225] (helo=rattlesnake.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1G0yma-0000ZC-Gr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 06:51:00 -0400 Original-Received: by rattlesnake.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.115) Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:49:09 +0000 (UTC) Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-reply-to: (message from Sascha Wilde on Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:14:17 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:56970 Archived-At: Sascha Wilde wrote Edited text should be marked up semantically, not by means of concrete visual properties. Yes. Also, for at least twenty years, WYSIWYG has meant producing at least two output formats from the same input. Nowadays -- that is to say, for more than a decade -- it means WYSAH, `what you see and hear ...' Although currently a Texinfo file can be converted directly to seven output formats, in practice, only three are needed: * Info for efficient on-line reading and hearing, * HTML for high resolution but less efficient on-line reading, and. * DVI, for off-line printing, which can be viewed on-line inefficiently. (You can also directly produce plain text, PDF, DocBook, and XML with a Texinfo DTD and indirectly produce PostScript, RTF, and LaTeX, plus others; but the three I mention tell us a great deal.) Thus, WYSAHIWYG text formatting needs to show visually the three output formats and enable you to listen as well as see one of them. (The eyes' free format not only helps the permanently blind, it is becoming more and more important for people, like other car drivers, who become situationally blind if they take their eyes off the road, which we do not wish.) (Texinfo is not the only input format from which it is easy to produce multiple output formats. DebianDoc does the same. It is one of the XML formats.) As a practical matter, everything Drew Adams discusses must work with these output formats that come from a single input. To do anything else is to show incompetence. It is not easy. -- Robert J. Chassell bob@rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.rattlesnake.com http://www.teak.cc