Re: pxref

["Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com>]

The problem for @xref and @ref is that the Info output format reduces
information.

`texi2dvi' works from the Texinfo source.
For display, the current CVS Emacs works from the Info output format.

If `*Note' is to replaced by `[Ss]ee', then the display must do
something in Emacs Lisp to choose whether or not to capitalize.  This
can only be done by emulating in code what a human does when choosing
@xref and @ref.

Karl, I am becoming more and more convinced that you should do
nothing.  But those who think `Info-hide-note-references' should be
set to a non-nil value (not me; I set the value to nil) should figure
out a good display algorithm.

Or else they should re-write Emacs Info to use Texinfo files when they
are available rather than Info files, being sure the new Info looks
good on slow connections, on text based terminals, and the various
window systems, such as X.

Or else they should follow my suggestion mentioned below for single
input/multiple output.

To see the issue, add the following to the Texinfo source test file.
(This text is indented in the source as shown.)

    Here is an @@xref as a sentence.  @xref{Musings on fossil fuels}.

    Here is an @@ref in a sentence, see @ref{Musings on fossil fuels}.

    Here is an @@pxref parenthetically (@ref{Musings on fossil fuels})
    in a sentence.

The Texinfo source produces this in the Info output format.  (This
output is not indented four spaces; I did that for this message.)

    Here is an @xref as a sentence.  *Note Musings on fossil fuels::.

    Here is an @ref in a sentence, see *Note Musings on fossil fuels::.

    Here is an @pxref parenthetically (*Note Musings on fossil fuels::)
     in a sentence.

Note the `see' from the source for the @ref and the one space
indentation of the `in' for the @pxref.  (Perhaps the source should
not be written with `see'.  I have left it because many make this
mistake although the Texinfo manual counsels against it.)

Here is the default Info display using today's CVS Emacs snapshot:

    Here is an @xref as a sentence.  See Musings on fossil fuels::.

    Here is an @ref in a sentence, see see Musings on fossil fuels::.

    Here is an @pxref parenthetically (see Musings on fossil fuels::)
     in a sentence.

Note the doubled `see' and the one space indentation of the `in'.

Here is the DVI output from texi2dvi 4.8 as seen using xdvi version 22.40v:

    Here is an @xref as a sentence. See Chapter 2 [Musings on fossil
    fuels], page 2.

    Here is an @ref in a sentence, see Chapter 2 [Musings on fossil
    fuels], page 2.

    Here is an @pxref parenthetically (Chapter 2 [Musings on fossil
    fuels], page 2) in a sentence.

W3M mode in GNU Emacs displays this:

    Here is an @xref as a sentence. See Musings on fossil fuels.

    Here is an @ref in a sentence, see Musings on fossil fuels.

    Here is an @pxref parenthetically (Musings on fossil fuels) in a sentence.

Both the DVI and the HTML display look correct to me (except for the
single space between sentences).

As far as I can see, the best result comes from writing Texinfo source
so the output looks good in Info (both with and without
`Info-hide-note-references' set to nil), in DVI (or PostScript or PDF;
I think they all display the same), in HTML, in plain text, and
listened to.  Texinfo is, after all, a single input format that
provides multiple outputs.

    http://www.rattlesnake.com/notions/single-multiple.html

But this depends on the virtue of the author ...

Or else, we should make it quick to update Info displays in Emacs;
then tell people to use an Emacs/Emacspeak that shows the high
resolution printed, the Web, and the two Info displays, and also
provides input for text-to-speech generation, which comes from Info.
Several years ago I wrote a prototype but it did not update Info
quickly and was a failure.

--
    Robert J. Chassell
    bob@rattlesnake.com                         GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  http://www.teak.cc