From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Robert J. Chassell" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Customize buttons that change user'scustomfileshouldaskforconfirmation Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 17:25:52 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: Reply-To: bob@rattlesnake.com NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1108058364 27446 80.91.229.2 (10 Feb 2005 17:59:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 17:59:24 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 10 18:59:23 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CzIX1-0005xu-F0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:55:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CzIln-0003dR-7I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:10:27 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1CzIlZ-0003dD-Sm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:10:13 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1CzIen-0001Ow-HI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:03:14 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CzIek-0001J4-Io for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:03:11 -0500 Original-Received: from [69.168.108.225] (helo=rattlesnake.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CzI50-0008Qa-S5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 12:26:14 -0500 Original-Received: by rattlesnake.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.115) Thu, 10 Feb 2005 17:25:52 +0000 (UTC) Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:33195 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:33195 Customize is a can of worms. But the worms can improve the garden if handled rightly! As others feared years ago, I now fear that some will come to depend on their .emacs file being written automatically by Customize. They will lose or not gain an understanding of the technology. This applies especially to people who are not programmers and who do not wish to become programmers. Customize should always show what it is automatically writing, just as menu items always show key strokes, so anyone can become more expert and more efficient if he or she wants. This does not force anyone to learn anything, but it makes that learning easy. The person faces a low hill rather than a steep mountain. For a single value, `Set for Current Session' should show in the value window the humanly readable version of what is set, such as (custom-set-variables ;; ... '(baud-rate 38400) ;; ... ) which takes a minimum of four lines. (The current interface requires one line, but does not show the complete expression.) This need for extra lines is a problem that I do not think we can avoid. The commentary should say, as it does now, you have set this option, but not saved it for future sessions. For future sessions, for a single value, we should replace `Save for Future Sessions' with the more accurate statement `Set and Save', write the four line expression in the value window, and say in the commentary you have set this option and saved it in your initialization file So you would see in your *Customize Face: bold* buffer (custom-set-faces ;; ... '(bold ((t (:background "DodgerBlue4" :foreground "PaleGreen")))) ;; ... ) and the same expression, with the other custimized faces, too, in your .emacs file. As for `All': when using the automatic writing feature for customization, that only makes sense as both a set and a save. Otherwise, novices might inadvertently come to think that you need to start a new instance of Emacs to gain new customizations. -- Robert J. Chassell bob@rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.rattlesnake.com http://www.teak.cc