From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Robert J. Chassell" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Eliminating "changed in Emacs outside of Customize" Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 21:10:28 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <87lla8xdps.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> Reply-To: bob@rattlesnake.com NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1107465162 1296 80.91.229.2 (3 Feb 2005 21:12:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 21:12:42 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 03 22:12:42 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CwoHE-0004Ak-A7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 22:12:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CwoUc-0002kA-NT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 16:26:26 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1CwoU8-0002bj-VI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 16:25:57 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1CwoU2-0002WR-B2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 16:25:51 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CwoTz-0002Us-7O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 16:25:47 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.114.245] (helo=rattlesnake.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CwoFG-0006W2-O9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 16:10:35 -0500 Original-Received: by rattlesnake.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.115) Thu, 3 Feb 2005 21:10:28 +0000 (UTC) Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-reply-to: (message from Richard Stallman on Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:12:47 -0500) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:32847 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:32847 The "Changed outside customize" has been a great help for me ... We could provide an option ... As far as I can see, the only reasonable way to avoid a message of that sort is to make sure that customize reports the *actual* value. And then, it would be useful for customize to tell a user whether the actual value was set by custom-set-faces or custom-set-variables or by some other function. Please remember: we do not want to discourage people, especially non-hackers, from learning Emacs Lisp. We want people to write code, even simple code, in their .emacs file. Otherwise, Emacs becomes mysterious. The interface that uses the custom-set-* functions should always be a stepping stone. We should expect novices to edit expressions that appear automatically generated in their .emacs file. -- Robert J. Chassell bob@rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.rattlesnake.com http://www.teak.cc