From: "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com>
Subject: Re: enriched-mode and switching major modes.
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:37:43 -0400 (EDT) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <m1C8hHT-000UNUC@rattlesnake.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <86vfec4ofc.fsf@ketchup.de.uu.net> (message from Kai Grossjohann on Fri, 17 Sep 2004 22:43:03 +0200)
As Kai Grossjohann said,
Emacs already displays something that's different than what is present
in the file
Yes, indeed. For a high resolution, word-processor-style display, two
questions arise. But first, a look at the past.
Version 18 Emacs had:
* the same rendering device (a character-only display screen)
that used different Emacs rendering programs
to produce differently displayed expressions
of the same info formatted file; for example:
in Emacs, find-file
in Emacs, Info
* different rendering devices (a character-only display screen, paper)
that used different rendering programs, some not Emacs,
to produce differently displayed expressions
of the same DVI formatted file; for example:
in Emacs, find-file
not in Emacs, xdvi in X
not in Emacs, printer
* different conversion programs, some not Emacs,
to produce different files
from the same Texinfo formatted file; for example:
in Emacs, texinfo-format-* to convert Texinfo to Info
not in Emacs, tex to convert Texinfo to DVI
Version 21 Emacs supports three rendering devices:
* character-only display screen
* bit-mapped display screen, as in X
* sound device
Two questions arise. In Emacs, in a bit-mapped display screen, as in
X, should a future Emacs support a high resolution,
word-processor-style display
1. by breaking current, basic Emacs design assumptions? This would
require a different display engine, as `xdvi' or `mozilla' now
are, but integrated within Emacs. Or,
2. by using current, basic Emacs design assumptions? This might mean
using two new modules (which are perhaps seen by a novice user as
making up one program, evoked as one Emacs command):
* a module to convert from the deep representation or `encoded
document file' to an intermediate representation containing,
as Eli Zaretskii suggested,
"a combination of characters and text properties, such
that Lisp programs and C code that look at the buffer
text could extract the layout information from that
text alone"
(This is similar to what `makeinfo --html' now does, with two
exceptions:
-- `makeinfo' is not part of Emacs, although two rendering
programs, `find-file' and `w3' are a part; and,
-- `makeinfo' creates a stand-alone output file rather than a
temporary file used within Emacs.)
* a module to render from the intermediate representation to the
display, as `find-file' with Enriched mode or `w3' or Info now
do, but with a more word-processor-like look.
For read-only displays, either solution fits the
single-deep-representation-input/multiple-surface-expression-outputs
model I discussed on this list some time ago.
However, people like to edit the various different surface expressions
for paper, for a graphic display, and for a sound device, as well as
the deep representation that holds them. So people prefer read-write
capability.
(A long time ago, I proposed a user interface design to handle the
display of the results of a slow, asynchronous conversion program
within Emacs without requiring the Emacs display to halt. For
example, this design -- showing a moving `wave of change' in a scroll
bar -- would enable an Emacs user both to view two parts of a long
file, one near its beginning and the other near its end, and to edit
them even after starting a `tex' update near the beginning and not
have its changes progress to the end for many seconds.)
--
Robert J. Chassell
bob@rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
http://www.rattlesnake.com http://www.teak.cc
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2004-09-18 15:37 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 150+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2004-09-04 23:58 enriched-mode and switching major modes Luc Teirlinck
2004-09-05 17:25 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-06 0:59 ` Luc Teirlinck
2004-09-06 16:42 ` Stefan
2004-09-06 16:53 ` Luc Teirlinck
2004-09-10 17:40 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-11 2:14 ` Luc Teirlinck
2004-09-11 16:56 ` Stefan
2004-09-11 21:51 ` Luc Teirlinck
2004-09-11 22:55 ` Stefan
2004-09-12 1:46 ` Luc Teirlinck
2004-09-12 18:18 ` Stefan
2004-09-12 2:50 ` Luc Teirlinck
2004-09-13 7:00 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-12 9:10 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-12 16:51 ` Luc Teirlinck
2004-09-12 17:08 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-12 18:36 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-09-12 20:01 ` Luc Teirlinck
2004-09-13 7:32 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-09-13 23:03 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-14 3:46 ` Luc Teirlinck
2004-09-14 12:26 ` Stefan Monnier
2004-09-14 22:12 ` Luc Teirlinck
2004-09-15 9:32 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-17 9:36 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-19 20:07 ` Luc Teirlinck
2004-09-06 7:36 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-06 19:01 ` Alex Schroeder
2004-09-10 17:40 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-10 19:30 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-13 23:04 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-14 14:41 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-14 16:31 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-15 1:39 ` Luc Teirlinck
2004-09-15 1:47 ` Luc Teirlinck
2004-09-15 8:06 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-15 15:42 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-16 13:20 ` Kai Grossjohann
2004-09-17 23:22 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-16 17:04 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-17 5:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2004-09-17 14:34 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-17 20:43 ` Kai Grossjohann
2004-09-17 22:05 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-09-18 19:07 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-18 15:37 ` Robert J. Chassell [this message]
2004-09-18 11:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2004-09-18 12:04 ` David Kastrup
2004-09-18 13:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2004-09-18 13:46 ` David Kastrup
2004-09-18 15:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2004-09-19 17:19 ` Kai Grossjohann
2004-09-18 22:55 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-18 17:08 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-18 17:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2004-09-18 20:02 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-18 21:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2004-09-18 21:54 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-20 0:06 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-20 11:48 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-21 18:30 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-21 19:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2004-09-21 20:06 ` Stefan Monnier
2004-09-22 4:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2004-09-22 18:20 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-22 18:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2004-09-23 16:44 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-22 10:01 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-22 13:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2004-09-22 13:11 ` Stefan Monnier
2004-09-22 13:14 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-22 16:27 ` Stefan Monnier
2004-09-23 1:48 ` Luc Teirlinck
2004-09-23 9:29 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-23 9:48 ` David Kastrup
2004-09-23 16:44 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-23 11:35 ` Stefan
2004-09-23 12:46 ` David Kastrup
2004-09-23 12:59 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-24 12:08 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-24 12:50 ` Stefan
2004-09-25 15:34 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-24 10:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2004-09-24 11:53 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-24 15:51 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-24 20:55 ` Alex Schroeder
2004-09-24 21:11 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-25 16:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2004-09-22 10:35 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-22 18:21 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-20 0:05 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-18 22:11 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-09-19 3:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2004-09-20 0:05 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-20 11:07 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-20 11:55 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-09-21 18:30 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-22 7:44 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-09-22 18:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2004-09-22 21:53 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-09-23 4:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2004-09-23 7:13 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-09-22 18:20 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-22 21:58 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-09-20 12:47 ` Kai Grossjohann
2004-09-17 15:08 ` Robert J. Chassell
2004-09-18 17:34 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-18 23:05 ` Robert J. Chassell
2004-09-19 11:07 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-19 11:24 ` David Kastrup
2004-09-19 13:14 ` Robert J. Chassell
2004-09-20 5:49 ` Stefan
2004-09-20 6:17 ` David Kastrup
2004-09-20 6:26 ` Stefan
2004-09-20 11:00 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-20 13:24 ` Stefan Monnier
2004-09-20 14:17 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-20 14:55 ` Stefan Monnier
2004-09-20 19:18 ` David Kastrup
2004-09-20 19:49 ` Stefan Monnier
2004-09-20 19:37 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-20 20:04 ` Stefan Monnier
2004-09-21 9:07 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-21 14:43 ` Robert J. Chassell
2004-09-20 21:44 ` Robert J. Chassell
2004-09-17 23:22 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-18 16:57 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-18 17:12 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-20 0:05 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-20 11:35 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-20 11:47 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-09-20 13:27 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-20 14:23 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-09-20 19:35 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-20 19:35 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-20 20:21 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-09-21 9:07 ` Oliver Scholz
2004-09-21 11:20 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-09-22 7:11 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-21 18:30 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-21 20:31 ` Miles Bader
2004-09-22 3:20 ` James Clark
2004-09-23 9:30 ` Richard Stallman
2004-09-21 9:53 ` Kai Grossjohann
2004-09-21 11:32 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-09-21 18:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2004-09-21 20:34 ` Miles Bader
2004-09-22 0:31 ` David Kastrup
2004-09-22 14:00 ` Richard Stallman
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