Re: Changing the no-toolkit scrollbar thumb color. (minor issue)

["Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com>]

I wrote:

      But the problem is worse than inadaquate documentation.  The current
      message from `customize-face' is *false*.  The `customize-face' method
      tells you that it has changed the foreground and background faces of
      the scroll bars when it has not.

Luc Teirlinck responded:

   I do not know exactly what you are referring to.  Is it the "State"
   message, like:

    State: you have set this face, but not saved it for future sessions.

Yes, this is what was said -- but the trough and slider colors did
not change.

   Strictly speaking this is accurate and relevant even if it has no
   effect on the scroll bar.  It does not say that you have successfully
   changed the colors of the scroll bar, it says that you have set the
   face.  

The message is misleading.  Rather that say

    you have set this face, 

it should say

    you have set this face, but that may do nothing to what you see;
    from your point of view as a user, this does nothing.

As you say

    Maybe the documentation string could be improved.

Exactly right.  At the moment, the documentation string comes across
as false.  It does not tell you what you see.

           - tell the user that `customize-face' fails with GTK and that
              the user must modify his or her ~/.emacs.d/gtkrc file.  The
              work to be done to the ~/.emacs.d/gtkrc file needs to be
              described in a manner that a novice can understand.

   .... In as far as the second suggestion is concerned, I believe
   that this information should be conveyed in the documentation
   string, not through an error message.

It *must* be in the error message for the action.  Otherwise, people
will think the customize feature is broken when it tells them
misleading information.  (And, in any case, many will not read the
documentation that tells them that the error message will be wrong.)

   Basic face for the scroll bar colors under X.
                                        ^^^^^^^^
I am running under X, not under Fresno or any other windowing system.

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         Rattlesnake Enterprises
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.teak.cc                             bob@rattlesnake.com