From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Robert J. Chassell" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Divergence in menu appearance between Emacs Info and standalone Info Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:28:05 +0000 (UTC) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <200306041404.h54E4SO30552@f7.net> <5x8ysg6p4r.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> <200306052323.h55NNr4B002965@rum.cs.yale.edu> Reply-To: bob@rattlesnake.com NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1054906587 2623 80.91.224.249 (6 Jun 2003 13:36:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:36:27 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 06 15:36:26 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19OHOM-0000fy-00 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:36:26 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19OHgv-0008A1-00 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:55:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19OHQ0-0007Xy-8i for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 09:38:08 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19OHOV-0006je-IU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 09:36:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19OHGr-0003Lk-41 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 09:28:42 -0400 Original-Received: from megalith.rattlesnake.com ([140.186.114.245] helo=rattlesnake.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19OHGK-00033o-I1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 09:28:09 -0400 Original-Received: by rattlesnake.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.114) Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:28:05 +0000 (UTC) Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-reply-to: (message from Miles Bader on 06 Jun 2003 11:02:00 +0900) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:14829 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:14829 You're not making much sense here; how does the verbiage surrounding traditional info xrefs help a novice writer understand Texinfo? As far as I can see, many people are absorbing, often without realizing it, the broken design model of HTML, and are not gaining a sense of the importance of nodes. When Buffer-menu-use-header-line is set to t, in the following, some novices do not realize that they do not have to connect to the Internet to see "Overview" and "Change Log", but that they are in different manuals: Patches are most welcome; if possible, please make them with `diff -c' (see Overview.) and include `ChangeLog' entries (see Change Log.). They think that `Overview' and `ChangeLog' are the node names. I agree that there is a problem with fully formed parenthetical cross references: too many parentheses. The historical format moves the inner parentheses further away from the outer parentheses, but does not look good: (see *note Overview: (diffutils)Top.) One advantage of the historical format is that it is obviously different from the format used by `g' (Info-goto-node) and by a menu. Perhaps the cross reference output formats should look more like the menu format. Here is what I mean where `_' suggests the printed output of @cite: @xref{Indicating, , Indicating Definitions, texinfo, Texinfo Manual}. In Info when Buffer-menu-use-header-line is set to t: See (texinfo)Indicating. when Buffer-menu-use-header-line is set to nil: See Indicating Definitions: (texinfo)Indicating. In HTML: See Indicating Definitions. In XML with texinfo.dtd: See Indicating Indicating Definitions texinfo . Printed: See "Indicating Definitions" in the _Texinfo Manual_. (see @pxref{Indicating, , Indicating Definitions, texinfo, Texinfo Manual}) In Info when Buffer-menu-use-header-line is set to t: (see (texinfo)Indicating) when Buffer-menu-use-header-line is set to nil: (see Indicating Definitions: (texinfo)Indicating) In HTML: (see Indicating Definitions) In XML with texinfo.dtd: (see Indicating Indicating Definitions texinfo ) Printed: (see "Indicating Definitions" in the _Texinfo Manual_) and in a menu: * Indicating Definitions: (texinfo)Indicating. How to indicate definitions, files, etc. -- Robert J. Chassell Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.teak.cc bob@rattlesnake.com