Info menu item bugs

Info menu item bugs

[Robert J. Chassell]

Today's CVS snapshot, Thu, 2003 Mar 20  12:16 UTC
GNU Emacs 21.3.50.233 (i686-pc-linux-gnu)
configured with  --with-x-toolkit=gtk
started with

     /usr/local/bin/emacs -q --no-site-file --eval '(blink-cursor-mode 0)'

An `Info' menu item appears in the menu bar when I start Info.  

First problem:  the only way I found to start Info in its `dir'
directory from the menu bar is to click on the `All Other Manuals
(Info)' subsubentry in the `More Manuals' subentry in the `Help' menu.
This is too far down the hierarchy for a novice.

I.e., the screen looks like this:

    Help
       More Manuals
          All Other Manuals (Info)

There is no entry for `Info' in general in the top level `Help' menu
even though Info is the primary online help mechanism for GNU systems.

The `Help' entry should contain an `Info' command.

Second problem: after starting Info, an `Info' menu item appears on
the main menu bar.

When I click on the `Info' menu item I see, confusingingly, two
identically named subsubsubmenu headers, one of which leads to Info
commands and the other of which leads to Info files.

I.e., the screen looks like this:

   Info
      Info
      Info

The submenus are both named `Info' but should be named differently.

Third problem: when I visit an Info file and then kill it, the Info
file goes away, as it should, but the main `Info' menu item continues
to sit on the top-level menu bar.

The main `Info' menu item should go away; or else it should provide a
way to access Info, but it does not.

Instead, the main `Info' menu item becomes useless.

Interestingly, the titles of the submenus change from both being
`Info' to `Menu Item' and `Reference' respectively, which is good, but
neither is active, which is bad.  I cannot do anything.

The `Reference' item is partially blanked out, indicating it is not
active, which is good, but the `Menu Item' entry leads to a list of
Info files (those at the top of the Info `dir' list) which are not
partially blanked out, but which I cannot access either.  This is bad.

The error message is:

    Info-extract-menu-item: No menu in this node

Fourth problem: when I restart Info, by typing `C-h i' (info) or by
clicking on the `All Other Manuals (Info)' subsub-menu item, the two
differing items on the main menu are replaced, as before, by the
single name `Info'.  This is as confusing as it was initially.

I.e., the screen looks like this when I click on the lower of the two
`Info' submenu entries:

   Info
      Info
      Info
         Menu Item
         Reference


However, `Menu Item' entry now works.  When I click on that subsubmenu
entry, It now will lead me to the nodes which it lists.

Fifth problem:  After restarting Info, the `Reference' item continues
to be partially blanked out, which indicates correctly that it is
inactive.  The correct information is fine, but using Info as I just
did, I cannot find any way to make use of the `Reference' item.  As
is, the entry is useless and superfluous.  It should be removed.

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         Rattlesnake Enterprises
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.teak.cc                             bob@rattlesnake.com

Re: Info menu item bugs

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 08:15:34 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com>
> 
> First problem:  the only way I found to start Info in its `dir'
> directory from the menu bar is to click on the `All Other Manuals
> (Info)' subsubentry in the `More Manuals' subentry in the `Help' menu.
> This is too far down the hierarchy for a novice.

IMHO, an Emacs novice needs a quick way to the Emacs manual, not to
the DIR menu.  The Emacs manual is on the Help menu.

> Fifth problem:  After restarting Info, the `Reference' item continues
> to be partially blanked out, which indicates correctly that it is
> inactive.  The correct information is fine, but using Info as I just
> did, I cannot find any way to make use of the `Reference' item.  As
> is, the entry is useless and superfluous.  It should be removed.

Don't you get a tooltip when you your move the mouse pointer above
that inactive menu item, telling you what the menu item does?  If so,
it is _not_ useless, IMHO: the tooltip teaches you what it would have
done if it were active.

So I don't think it should be removed.

Re: Info menu item bugs

[Robert J. Chassell]

   > First problem:  the only way I found to start Info in its `dir'
   > directory from the menu bar is to click on the `All Other Manuals
   > (Info)' subsubentry in the `More Manuals' subentry in the `Help' menu.
   > This is too far down the hierarchy for a novice.

   IMHO, an Emacs novice needs a quick way to the Emacs manual, not to
   the DIR menu.  The Emacs manual is on the Help menu.

Certainly, it is good to have the current menu item for the Emacs
manual.  But right below it we should have an entry

    All the manuals (Info)


   > Fifth problem:  After restarting Info, the `Reference' item continues
   > to be partially blanked out...


   Don't you get a tooltip when you your move the mouse pointer above
   that inactive menu item, telling you what the menu item does?  

No, not with yesterday's CVS snapshot 
configured with  --with-x-toolkit=gtk
started with

     /usr/local/bin/emacs -q --no-site-file --eval '(blink-cursor-mode 0)'

Hmm... tooltips are missing, since I do not get them when I turn on
tooltip-mode:

    (tooltip-mode 1)

You are right, tool tips are helpful, however

   Don't you get a tooltip ....
   If so, it is _not_ useless, IMHO: the tooltip teaches you what it
   would have done if it were active.

But the menu entry is *never* active.  That is the problem.  The
tooltip, if it existed, would teach you about something you cannot
get.

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         Rattlesnake Enterprises
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.teak.cc                             bob@rattlesnake.com

Re: Info menu item bugs

[Jan D.]

> 
>    Don't you get a tooltip when you your move the mouse pointer above
>    that inactive menu item, telling you what the menu item does?  

Most toolkits (Lucid, Motif, Lesstif, GTK behave the same in this regard)
can not give tooltips for inactive menu entries.  Basically all events
are turned off for that entry so detecting if the mouse is over the item
is not easy to do.

> No, not with yesterday's CVS snapshot 
> configured with  --with-x-toolkit=gtk
> started with
> 
>      /usr/local/bin/emacs -q --no-site-file --eval '(blink-cursor-mode 0)'
> 
> Hmm... tooltips are missing, since I do not get them when I turn on
> tooltip-mode:
> 
>     (tooltip-mode 1)
> 
> You are right, tool tips are helpful, however
> 
>    Don't you get a tooltip ....
>    If so, it is _not_ useless, IMHO: the tooltip teaches you what it
>    would have done if it were active.
> 
> But the menu entry is *never* active.  That is the problem.  The
> tooltip, if it existed, would teach you about something you cannot
> get.

Anyway, it must be a bug that the Info menu is placed to the left of File,
it should be to the right of Tools, as for 21.2.  It should also be
removed when exiting Info.  This bug happens for all versions of Emacs
I can compile (Motif, Lucid, GTK, no toolkit, no X).

Something must have happened in info-mode.

	Jan D.

Re: Info menu item bugs

[John Paul Wallington]

"Jan D." <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> wrote:

> Anyway, it must be a bug that the Info menu is placed to the left of File,
[...]
> Something must have happened in info-mode.

No, it is caused by the change to `easy-menu-add-item' to default MAP
to the current-global-map.  We can back out like so, but it would be
nice to fix it instead.


diff -u -r1.57 easymenu.el
--- easymenu.el	16 Mar 2003 00:39:23 -0000	1.57
+++ easymenu.el	20 Mar 2003 02:24:01 -0000
@@ -516,9 +516,6 @@
 ITEM is either defined as in `easy-menu-define' or a non-nil value returned
 by `easy-menu-item-present-p' or `easy-menu-remove-item' or a menu defined
 earlier by `easy-menu-define' or `easy-menu-create-menu'."
-  (unless map
-    (setq map (current-global-map))
-    (push 'menu-bar path))
   (setq map (easy-menu-get-map map path
 			       (and (null map) (null path)
 				    (stringp (car-safe item))

Re: Info menu item bugs

[Richard Stallman]

    But the menu entry is *never* active.

Is it really never active, or is it just that it isn't clear
when it is active?

Re: Info menu item bugs

[Richard Stallman]

    No, it is caused by the change to `easy-menu-add-item' to default MAP
    to the current-global-map.  We can back out like so, but it would be
    nice to fix it instead.

It would be best to back it out, to start with.  Would someone please
do that?  (I am working thru a phone line from here.)

Then Stefan can tell us what case this was meant to fix, and he or
others can look for a better way to fix it.

It is supposed to be easy-menu-get-map that decides which map
to use.  I suggest fixing the problem there.

Re: Info menu item bugs

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 11:34:23 +0000 (UTC)
> From: "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com>
> 
>    IMHO, an Emacs novice needs a quick way to the Emacs manual, not to
>    the DIR menu.  The Emacs manual is on the Help menu.
> 
> Certainly, it is good to have the current menu item for the Emacs
> manual.  But right below it we should have an entry
> 
>     All the manuals (Info)

We tried that, but this arrangement would make the Help menu too
long.  So we put the other manuals in a submenu.

Re: Info menu item bugs

[Robert J. Chassell]

       But the menu entry is *never* active.

   Is it really never active, or is it just that it isn't clear
   when it is active?

It is really never active.  That is the bug.

To reproduce this, start Info without a ~/.emacs or site file, 
then click on the Info --> Info --> Reference item.  Nothing happens.  

Then kill Info and click on the Info --> Reference item.  Nothing happens.

This is using Friday's CVS snapshot
started with

     /usr/local/bin/emacs -q --no-site-file --eval '(blink-cursor-mode 0)'

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         Rattlesnake Enterprises
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.teak.cc                             bob@rattlesnake.com