From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Robert J. Chassell" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Customize fringe Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 11:07:24 +0000 (UTC) Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <877kmd7bf5.fsf@tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp> <87helh5f96.fsf@tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp> <2950-Fri10May2002095256+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il> <5xsn509w7x.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> Reply-To: bob@rattlesnake.com NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1021028956 28253 127.0.0.1 (10 May 2002 11:09:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 11:09:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: bob@rattlesnake.com Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 1768Gy-0007La-00 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 13:09:16 +0200 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 1768Q2-0007Jj-00 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 13:18:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 1768Gq-00063n-00; Fri, 10 May 2002 07:09:08 -0400 Original-Received: from megalith.rattlesnake.com ([140.186.114.245] helo=localhost) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 1768FC-0005yi-00 for ; Fri, 10 May 2002 07:07:27 -0400 Original-Received: by rattlesnake.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.114) Fri, 10 May 2002 11:07:24 +0000 (UTC) Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <5xsn509w7x.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> (storm@cua.dk) Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:3804 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:3804 On 2002 May 10, Eli Zaretskii wrote: In any case, I think general fringe on/off will be less useful once fringes are per buffer/window rather than per frame. Yes, this is definitely true. Indeed, I tend to think of all toggles as per-buffer rather than per-frame, even though I know they are not. This is because I seen the buffer as the fundamental unit: the place where one works, the place that holds files, the place where commands go and messages come from (in my mental model of what Emacs does, a mini-buffer/echo area applies only to the current buffer, not to a frame); when I run an external process, such as grep, I see it as within a buffer, and independent of other buffers. That, by the way, is why I expect one instance of Emacs to be able to run multiple Emacs Lisp processes at the same time and am still, often surprised that Emacs cannot -- I know the difficulties of doing this; I am saying that the feature is contrary to my expectation. In other words, I think of a buffer metaphorically as a `place', such as an island in an ocean. I can approach such an island in various ways; that is to say, I can open several windows on the same buffer; and different buffers have different features available to me. Dired buffers enable me to do some things, *cvs* buffers enable me to do other things, buffers visiting files enable be to do yet different actions. Moreover, I can copy from one island to another using the `kill' command. Note how the naming of the `kill' command comes from a different metaphor. In a metaphor based on place, `kill' is the wrong metaphor; the word should be `clip', as in clipping the blossom off of a flower. But where text is seen as a living entity that a god can kill resurrect, `kill' become the right metaphor. The `cut', `paste' metaphor comes from the old practice, which I engaged in before computers, of cutting segments of text out of pages, and pasting them onto fresh paper so the resulting document has the segments of text in a different order. -- Robert J. Chassell bob@rattlesnake.com Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com