Org-mode 4.78

Org-mode 4.78

[Carsten Dominik]

Org-mode version 4.78 is available through Emacs CVS, and at

http://www.astro.uva.nl/~dominik/Tools/org/

XEmacs users, please check, the installation procedure has changed 
slightly,
and this is not yet in the manual, only below in the list of changes.

Enjoy!

- Carsten

Change in Version 4.78
----------------------

* Overview

   - Time stamps with a time range *included*, like
     : <2007-06-18 Mon 17:33-18:23>

   - Clock times without clocking in/out: CLOCK: => 2:00

   - Language-specific characters allowed in TAGS (Emacs only).

   - Promotion and demotion of items gets the indentation right.

   - Indenting lines with TAB is more intelligent.

* Incompatible changes

   - There is now a special version of `org.el' for XEmacs.
     Before installation, as an XEmacs user you must rename the
     file org_xemacs.el to org.el, i.e. you must overwrite org.el
     with the xemacs version.  For example:

     : mv org_xemacs.el org.el

     This is necessary so that I can make use of some features
     that would be cumbersome to support in a single file.  The
     XEmacs version is derived from the Emacs version with a
     program, so no reason to fear that I might be dropping
     XEmacs support any time soon.  Sorry for the trouble.

* Details

   - A time stamp may now contain a range of times.  So you no
     longer need to use two separate stamps to indicate a time
     interval on a single day.  For example

     : <2007-06-18 Mon 17:30-18:20>

     This is now fully supported, including changing the time
     with S-up/down while the cursor is on the end time.  Also,
     da the date/time prompt, you can simply write your time like
     12:00-14:00 and the range will be inserted.

     This was proposed by Leo some time ago, and recently by
     Michael.

   - You may specify clocking times by hand (i.e. without
     clocking in and out) using this syntax.

     : CLOCK: => 2:00

     Thanks to Scott Jaderholm for this proposal.

   - TAGS may now contain language-specific word characters, as
     long as they are matched by the "[:alnum:]" regexp syntax.
     This is for Emacs only, the XEmacs version continues to use
     the character class "a-zA-Z0-9_@" for tag names.  Thanks to
     David Smith for a patch to this effect (a modified version
     of that patch was applied).  I am considering to make the
     same change for TODO keywords, but not yet.  Note that files
     using localization features may not work correctly in the
     Emacs configuration of another user, so if you are sharing
     org-mode files with other users, it might still be best to
     stick to the ASCII characters.

   - Promotion and demotion of plain list items (commands M-left,
     M-right) no longer changes the indentation by just one
     space.  Instead, it uses intelligence gathered from the
     surrounding list structure to do the right thing.  Thanks to
     William Henney for starting the discussion about this.

   - TAB does now a better job of indenting lines.

     + After tables and code segments (lines starting with ":"),
       indentation goes back to what it was before (thanks to
       William Henney for suggesting this behavior).

     + When plain lists items are involved, we had a long
       discussion on emacs-orgmode where I tried to show that a
       too-sophisticated implementation will still be easily
       fooled.   Here is what I have implemented now - lets see
       if we can agree on this:

       Indentation will flatten lists with the same bullet type,
       but indent another bullet type further.  The time when
       this fails is in a nested list, when you want to get back
       out to a previous level.  For example

       : - item 1
       : - item 2
       : + item 2a
       : + item 2b
       : - item 3

       When using TAB on every line in this list, the structure
       will change to

       : - item 1
       : - item 2
       :   + item 2a
       :   + item 2b
       :     - item 3

       So you need to change the level of the last line by hand,
       using promotion and demotion functions.

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[Leo]

----- Carsten Dominik (2007-06-19) wrote:-----

>       When using TAB on every line in this list, the structure
>       will change to
>
>       : - item 1
>       : - item 2
>       :   + item 2a
>       :   + item 2b
>       :     - item 3
>
>       So you need to change the level of the last line by hand,
>       using promotion and demotion functions.

This is also nice. Thanks.

-- 
Leo <sdl.web AT gmail.com>                         (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[Carsten Dominik]

On Jun 19, 2007, at 10:56, Carsten Dominik wrote:

> Org-mode version 4.78 is available through Emacs CVS, and at
>
> http://www.astro.uva.nl/~dominik/Tools/org/
>
> XEmacs users, please check, the installation procedure has changed 
> slightly,
> and this is not yet in the manual, only below in the list of changes.

This was really annoying, so I did think of a better way.  4.78b is
up on my site, and again has a single file org.el for
both emacsen.  Merging things back has caused a small performance
penalty for XEmacs users - however, when org.el is compiled,
this penalty will be entirely gone.

Sorry for the mess.


- Carsten

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[William Henney]

Hi Carsten

On 6/19/07, Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>    - Promotion and demotion of items gets the indentation right.
>
>    - Indenting lines with TAB is more intelligent.

The new behaviour is great. Many thanks for sorting this out.

Cheers

Will


-- 

  Dr William Henney, Centro de Radioastronomía y Astrofísica,
  Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, Campus Morelia

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[William Henney]

Just one more small request....

On 6/19/07, William Henney <whenney@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/19/07, Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
> >    - Promotion and demotion of items gets the indentation right.
> >
> >    - Indenting lines with TAB is more intelligent.

... now that there is a syntactic difference between the bullet point
types, how about having a function that cycles between them (just +
and - by default). This could perhaps be bound to "C-c C--", or even
just "C-c -" since that is currently only useful inside tables - I
know you like to have busy keys :)

Cheers

Will


-- 

  Dr William Henney, Centro de Radioastronomía y Astrofísica,
  Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, Campus Morelia

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[ignotus]

>>>>> Regarding 'Re: Org-mode 4.78'; Carsten Dominik adds:


  >> XEmacs users, please check, the installation procedure has changed
  >> slightly,

  > This was really annoying, so I did think of a better way.

Agreed, thanks!

-- 
...sutongi tti olleh

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[Michael]

On 19 Jun 2007, Carsten Dominik wrote:

> - Time stamps with a time range *included*, like
> : <2007-06-18 Mon 17:33-18:23>

Thanks.  This works great.

Can there be also a org-default-event-length (i.e., 1 hr) such that when the
second time is not specified the event is assumed to last one hour (to show
in the agenda)?  It can be set to nil if people don't like this kind of
behavior. 

Michael

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[Juraj Kubelka]

Hi Carsten,

thank you a lot for your efforts.  Unfortunately thanks to changes in  
org-at-timestamp-p function (see patch below) org-agenda-date-later  
doesn't work.  If I comment it, it works.  "(match-end 8)" returns  
nil but number or pointer is expected.

Best regards,
Juraj


===== patch =====
@@ -13432,6 +13593,8 @@ With prefix ARG, change that many days."
	       ((org-pos-in-match-range pos 8)      'minute)
	       ((or (org-pos-in-match-range pos 4)
		    (org-pos-in-match-range pos 5)) 'day)
+	       ((and (> pos (match-end 8)) (< pos (match-end 0)))
+		(- pos (match-end 8)))
	       (t 'day))))
      ans))



On 19.6.2007, at 10:56, Carsten Dominik wrote:

> Org-mode version 4.78 is available through Emacs CVS, and at
>
> http://www.astro.uva.nl/~dominik/Tools/org/
>
> XEmacs users, please check, the installation procedure has changed  
> slightly,
> and this is not yet in the manual, only below in the list of changes.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> - Carsten
>
> Change in Version 4.78
> ----------------------
>
> * Overview
>
>   - Time stamps with a time range *included*, like
>     : <2007-06-18 Mon 17:33-18:23>
>
>   - Clock times without clocking in/out: CLOCK: => 2:00
>
>   - Language-specific characters allowed in TAGS (Emacs only).
>
>   - Promotion and demotion of items gets the indentation right.
>
>   - Indenting lines with TAB is more intelligent.
>
> * Incompatible changes
>
>   - There is now a special version of `org.el' for XEmacs.
>     Before installation, as an XEmacs user you must rename the
>     file org_xemacs.el to org.el, i.e. you must overwrite org.el
>     with the xemacs version.  For example:
>
>     : mv org_xemacs.el org.el
>
>     This is necessary so that I can make use of some features
>     that would be cumbersome to support in a single file.  The
>     XEmacs version is derived from the Emacs version with a
>     program, so no reason to fear that I might be dropping
>     XEmacs support any time soon.  Sorry for the trouble.
>
> * Details
>
>   - A time stamp may now contain a range of times.  So you no
>     longer need to use two separate stamps to indicate a time
>     interval on a single day.  For example
>
>     : <2007-06-18 Mon 17:30-18:20>
>
>     This is now fully supported, including changing the time
>     with S-up/down while the cursor is on the end time.  Also,
>     da the date/time prompt, you can simply write your time like
>     12:00-14:00 and the range will be inserted.
>
>     This was proposed by Leo some time ago, and recently by
>     Michael.
>
>   - You may specify clocking times by hand (i.e. without
>     clocking in and out) using this syntax.
>
>     : CLOCK: => 2:00
>
>     Thanks to Scott Jaderholm for this proposal.
>
>   - TAGS may now contain language-specific word characters, as
>     long as they are matched by the "[:alnum:]" regexp syntax.
>     This is for Emacs only, the XEmacs version continues to use
>     the character class "a-zA-Z0-9_@" for tag names.  Thanks to
>     David Smith for a patch to this effect (a modified version
>     of that patch was applied).  I am considering to make the
>     same change for TODO keywords, but not yet.  Note that files
>     using localization features may not work correctly in the
>     Emacs configuration of another user, so if you are sharing
>     org-mode files with other users, it might still be best to
>     stick to the ASCII characters.
>
>   - Promotion and demotion of plain list items (commands M-left,
>     M-right) no longer changes the indentation by just one
>     space.  Instead, it uses intelligence gathered from the
>     surrounding list structure to do the right thing.  Thanks to
>     William Henney for starting the discussion about this.
>
>   - TAB does now a better job of indenting lines.
>
>     + After tables and code segments (lines starting with ":"),
>       indentation goes back to what it was before (thanks to
>       William Henney for suggesting this behavior).
>
>     + When plain lists items are involved, we had a long
>       discussion on emacs-orgmode where I tried to show that a
>       too-sophisticated implementation will still be easily
>       fooled.   Here is what I have implemented now - lets see
>       if we can agree on this:
>
>       Indentation will flatten lists with the same bullet type,
>       but indent another bullet type further.  The time when
>       this fails is in a nested list, when you want to get back
>       out to a previous level.  For example
>
>       : - item 1
>       : - item 2
>       : + item 2a
>       : + item 2b
>       : - item 3
>
>       When using TAB on every line in this list, the structure
>       will change to
>
>       : - item 1
>       : - item 2
>       :   + item 2a
>       :   + item 2b
>       :     - item 3
>
>       So you need to change the level of the last line by hand,
>       using promotion and demotion functions.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[dave]

On Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:56:35 +0200, Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
> Org-mode version 4.78 is available through Emacs CVS, and at
> 
>    - You may specify clocking times by hand (i.e. without
>      clocking in and out) using this syntax.
> 
>      : CLOCK: => 2:00

Should these time entries be picked up for clock tables? It seems that they
aren't. If so, maybe there's a bug or I'm missing something set-up wise. Also, I
guess there would be problems with time-range blocks such as

   :block thisweek

since there is no date info. But if these time entries *aren't* included in
clock tables or time calculations (C-c C-x C-d), then what are they useful for?

I was hoping to use them for estimating project/task times, and later comparing
those with actual time used (oh, the horror!).

//Dave

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[Carsten Dominik]

On Jun 20, 2007, at 5:06, dave@skiddlydee.com wrote:

> On Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:56:35 +0200, Carsten Dominik 
> <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Org-mode version 4.78 is available through Emacs CVS, and at
>>
>>    - You may specify clocking times by hand (i.e. without
>>      clocking in and out) using this syntax.
>>
>>      : CLOCK: => 2:00
>
> Should these time entries be picked up for clock tables? It seems that 
> they
> aren't.

Yes they are, the syntax is

  ** some entry
     CLOCK: => 2:00

i.e. no initial colon, this was a typo in the release notes.

>  If so, maybe there's a bug or I'm missing something set-up wise. 
> Also, I
> guess there would be problems with time-range blocks such as
>
>    :block thisweek

I don't understand this question.

- Carsten

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[dave]

On Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:37:44 +0200, Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Jun 20, 2007, at 5:06, dave@skiddlydee.com wrote:
> 
> > On Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:56:35 +0200, Carsten Dominik 
> > <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>    - You may specify clocking times by hand (i.e. without
> >>      clocking in and out) using this syntax.
> >>      : CLOCK: => 2:00
> >
> > Should these time entries be picked up for clock tables? It seems that 
> > they aren't.
> 
> Yes they are, the syntax is
> 
>   ** some entry
>      CLOCK: => 2:00
> 
> i.e. no initial colon, this was a typo in the release notes.

Got it. Thanks, it's working for me now.

> >  If so, maybe there's a bug or I'm missing something set-up wise. 
> > Also, I
> > guess there would be problems with time-range blocks such as
> >
> >    :block thisweek
> 
> I don't understand this question.

Sorry, that was pretty vague. What I meant was, if you have a clock table like
this:

#+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 4 :emphasize nil :block lastweek
...

the ":block lastweek" part doesn't really fit with clock entries like

** some entry
    CLOCK: => 2:00

since there isn't any date info in the clock entry. It appears that these
 entries are included in the clock table no matter what the setting of
:block or :tstart, :tend. This works OK for me. I can limit the table to
dateless clock entries by setting :tstart to a date in the future, for example.

//Dave

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[Dmitri Minaev]

On 6/19/07, Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>    - Indenting lines with TAB is more intelligent.

Yes, it works nice, thanks. But org-indent-line-function now indents
headings just as if they were list elements...

I tried to find the error in the function, but my understanding of
elisp was insufficient. Sorry :(

-- 
With best regards,
Dmitri Minaev

Russian history blog: http://minaev.blogspot.com

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[Jason F. McBrayer]

dave@skiddlydee.com writes:

>
> Sorry, that was pretty vague. What I meant was, if you have a clock
> table like this:
>
> #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 4 :emphasize nil :block lastweek
> ...
>
> the ":block lastweek" part doesn't really fit with clock entries like
>
> ** some entry
>     CLOCK: => 2:00
>
> since there isn't any date info in the clock entry. It appears that
> these entries are included in the clock table no matter what the
> setting of :block or :tstart, :tend. This works OK for me. I can
> limit the table to dateless clock entries by setting :tstart to a
> date in the future, for example.

I'd like to be able to assign dates to these timestamp-less clock
entries.  Just to have a way of saying "I worked on this for two hours
on Tuesday" without having to clock in and out specific times.  Useful
for entering things retroactively, for example, or putting in full-day
events. 

-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| Jason F. McBrayer                    jmcbray@carcosa.net  |
| If someone conquers a thousand times a thousand others in |
| battle, and someone else conquers himself, the latter one |
| is the greatest of all conquerors.  --- The Dhammapada    |

Re: Re: Org-mode 4.78

[Carsten Dominik]

On Jun 19, 2007, at 20:45, Michael wrote:

> On 19 Jun 2007, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>
>> - Time stamps with a time range *included*, like
>> : <2007-06-18 Mon 17:33-18:23>
>
> Thanks.  This works great.
>
> Can there be also a org-default-event-length (i.e., 1 hr) such that 
> when the
> second time is not specified the event is assumed to last one hour (to 
> show
> in the agenda)?  It can be set to nil if people don't like this kind of
> behavior.

Sure, but I will not turn it on by default.  I don't think it is
so useful because the agenda does not have a visual representation
for the length of an appointment.

This will be the variable `org-agenda-default-appointment-length'.

- Carsten



--
Carsten Dominik
Sterrenkundig Instituut "Anton Pannekoek"
Universiteit van Amsterdam
Kruislaan 403
NL-1098SJ Amsterdam
phone: +31 20 525 7477

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[Carsten Dominik]

On Jun 20, 2007, at 7:57, dave@skiddlydee.com wrote:

> #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 4 :emphasize nil :block lastweek
> ...
>
> the ":block lastweek" part doesn't really fit with clock entries like
>
> ** some entry
>     CLOCK: => 2:00
>
> since there isn't any date info in the clock entry. It appears that 
> these
>  entries are included in the clock table no matter what the setting of
> :block or :tstart, :tend. This works OK for me. I can limit the table 
> to
> dateless clock entries by setting :tstart to a date in the future, for 
> example.

Yes, these hand-added times will always count, not much to do about it.

- Carsten

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[Carsten Dominik]

Fixed, thanks.

- Carsten

On Jun 20, 2007, at 10:52, Dmitri Minaev wrote:

> On 6/19/07, Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>>    - Indenting lines with TAB is more intelligent.
>
> Yes, it works nice, thanks. But org-indent-line-function now indents
> headings just as if they were list elements...
>
> I tried to find the error in the function, but my understanding of
> elisp was insufficient. Sorry :(
>
> -- 
> With best regards,
> Dmitri Minaev
>
> Russian history blog: http://minaev.blogspot.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
>

--
Carsten Dominik
Sterrenkundig Instituut "Anton Pannekoek"
Universiteit van Amsterdam
Kruislaan 403
NL-1098SJ Amsterdam
phone: +31 20 525 7477

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[Carsten Dominik]

On Jun 20, 2007, at 15:27, Jason F. McBrayer wrote:
> I'd like to be able to assign dates to these timestamp-less clock
> entries.  Just to have a way of saying "I worked on this for two hours
> on Tuesday" without having to clock in and out specific times.  Useful
> for entering things retroactively, for example, or putting in full-day
> events.

That is possible, but a bit more complex, so I am not sure
when I will get around to this.
For the time being, if you need to assign the clocking to
a date, just clock in and out and then change the dates by
hand.

- Carsten

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[Jason F. McBrayer]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> writes:

> That is possible, but a bit more complex, so I am not sure when I
> will get around to this.  For the time being, if you need to assign
> the clocking to a date, just clock in and out and then change the
> dates by hand.

Indeed, that is what I do, currently, or make the clockline by hand
with org-time-stamp.  And I'm not sure there's a tremendous need for
this feature to be added.

-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| Jason F. McBrayer                    jmcbray@carcosa.net  |
| If someone conquers a thousand times a thousand others in |
| battle, and someone else conquers himself, the latter one |
| is the greatest of all conquerors.  --- The Dhammapada    |

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[Carsten Dominik]

On Jun 19, 2007, at 17:16, William Henney wrote:

> Just one more small request....
>
> On 6/19/07, William Henney <whenney@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 6/19/07, Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >    - Promotion and demotion of items gets the indentation right.
>> >
>> >    - Indenting lines with TAB is more intelligent.
>
> ... now that there is a syntactic difference between the bullet point
> types, how about having a function that cycles between them (just +
> and - by default). This could perhaps be bound to "C-c C--", or even
> just "C-c -" since that is currently only useful inside tables - I
> know you like to have busy keys :)

How about the key sequences

DEL - C-c C-c
DEL + C-c C-c
DEL 1. C-c C-c

Not so bad, really.  On the other hand, C-c - is clearly a possibility.

We'll see.

- Carsten


>
> Cheers
>
> Will
>
>
> -- 
>
>  Dr William Henney, Centro de Radioastronomía y Astrofísica,
>  Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, Campus Morelia
>
>

--
Carsten Dominik
Sterrenkundig Instituut "Anton Pannekoek"
Universiteit van Amsterdam
Kruislaan 403
NL-1098SJ Amsterdam
phone: +31 20 525 7477

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[William Henney]

Hi Carsten

On 6/22/07, Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Jun 19, 2007, at 17:16, William Henney wrote:
> > ... now that there is a syntactic difference between the bullet point
> > types, how about having a function that cycles between them (just +
> > and - by default). This could perhaps be bound to "C-c C--", or even
> > just "C-c -" since that is currently only useful inside tables - I
> > know you like to have busy keys :)
>
> How about the key sequences
>
> DEL - C-c C-c
> DEL + C-c C-c
> DEL 1. C-c C-c
>
> Not so bad, really.  On the other hand, C-c - is clearly a possibility.
>

Yes, those are OK if you have the cursor in the right place to start
with. But my idea was that "C-c -" would work with point anywhere in
the line.

Cheers

Will


-- 

  Dr William Henney, Centro de Radioastronomía y Astrofísica,
  Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, Campus Morelia

Re: Org-mode 4.78

[Carsten Dominik]

On Jun 22, 2007, at 18:32, William Henney wrote:

> Hi Carsten
>
> On 6/22/07, Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 19, 2007, at 17:16, William Henney wrote:
>> > ... now that there is a syntactic difference between the bullet 
>> point
>> > types, how about having a function that cycles between them (just +
>> > and - by default). This could perhaps be bound to "C-c C--", or even
>> > just "C-c -" since that is currently only useful inside tables - I
>> > know you like to have busy keys :)
>>
>> How about the key sequences
>>
>> DEL - C-c C-c
>> DEL + C-c C-c
>> DEL 1. C-c C-c
>>
>> Not so bad, really.  On the other hand, C-c - is clearly a 
>> possibility.
>>
>
> Yes, those are OK if you have the cursor in the right place to start
> with. But my idea was that "C-c -" would work with point anywhere in
> the line.

OK, this will work in the next version, thanks.

- Carsten