From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Leo Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: merge [S-tab] and [backtab] Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 18:42:00 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4C564807.7020903@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1280770952 24659 80.91.229.12 (2 Aug 2010 17:42:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 17:42:32 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 02 19:42:29 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ofz1v-0003C4-N4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 19:42:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41875 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ofz1v-0001qq-6E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 13:42:27 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=51477 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ofz1q-0001qc-Cg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 13:42:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ofz1p-0004FG-5X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 13:42:22 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:46704) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ofz1o-0004F3-KG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 13:42:20 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ofz1h-000379-LJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 19:42:13 +0200 Original-Received: from cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com ([86.9.122.85]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 19:42:13 +0200 Original-Received: from sdl.web by cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 19:42:13 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 44 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACgAAAAoAgMAAADxkFD+AAAADFBMVEUvT09qWs3/pQD///+J kUVcAAAAAWJLR0QAiAUdSAAAAAlwSFlzAAALEwAACxMBAJqcGAAAAAd0SU1FB9cBBwMLOd3veKQA AACuSURBVBjTldE9CgIxEAXgB+lEyFUC2wo5ikdZ8DSypxhMY7H9VuIVwlqkGRgnm59VsHGafIQ3 CZlAtmKIRaHETgYa12lqvEsPYKf8wXHsPGfqPaUM0g9aJPKFXkmNQmSDqwzz4Fpgpz+6WAPY2z5o uPJJpu0uypcl4nyCibMLQ8lCiVjayLoQvw5LsVKQuHPRR958HZbOcVsKeepcLxpByjycGvnKmY+c MBvrtyjfe0vmuLvdq/kAAAAASUVORK5CYII= User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.2 (Mac OS X 10.6.4) Cancel-Lock: sha1:i2PFQiekPGf246jzPctLf2/To6E= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:128139 Archived-At: On 2010-08-02 05:22 +0100, Paul Griepentrog wrote: > Just a tidbit of computer evolution: the [backtab] key does not > exist on modern keyboards. Of course, Emacs uses this key in > several modes (grep, compile, erc, ...). So, in the place of > [backtab] within Emacs, [S-tab] is the conventional binding for a > poor man's backtab. For convenience, some terminals (X, > Windows, and recently: NextStep) translate the keypress of > [S-tab] into [backtab] and nobody is the wizer. > > Unless... you want to bind [S-tab] in a mode. Then you find out > [S-tab] is NOT the key sequence you thought it was. The binding > worked on X and Windows, but not at the terminal (or another > platform which did not link [S-tab] to [backtab]). What > happened?! Well, so you bind [backtab] as well. > > My proposal is to universally translate [S-tab] and [S-iso-tab] > into [backtab] across all terminals. At least then you can bind > [backtab] and know it will work across platforms and terminals. > Included in this proposal is removing obsolete bindings to > [S-tab] and [S-iso-tab] for modes within Emacs and updating the > documentation. I include [S-iso-tab] since it is yet another > abused synonym for [backtab]. > > Note: this change will NOT ADD or REMOVE any bindings. It is to > unify the keypresses of [S-tab], [S-iso-tab] to [backtab] where > they already exist. > > I don't pretend to know the history of the keybindings or > specific terminals, but a uniform view of [S-tab] vs [backtab] > makes sense to me. > > Thoughts? For example, eshell-cmpl-initialize has: ;; jww (1999-10-19): Will this work on anything but X? (if (featurep 'xemacs) (define-key eshell-mode-map [iso-left-tab] 'pcomplete-reverse) (define-key eshell-mode-map [(shift iso-lefttab)] 'pcomplete-reverse) (define-key eshell-mode-map [(shift control ?i)] 'pcomplete-reverse)) And yet it still fails on some systems. Leo