Undocumented menu feature?

Undocumented menu feature?

[Sergey Organov]

Hello,

I've asked this in help-gnu-emacs, but nobody seems to have a clue
there. Hopefully some developer(s) knwow.

Here is the reference:

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2014-10/msg00007.html

And here is my original question:

I suddenly found that my emacs (GNU Emacs 23.2.1, running on
Debian/Gnome) is capable of "detaching" some sub-menus and putting them
into separate frames. For example, if I click "File" in the main menu,
submenu appears containing dashed line at the top, and if I click on
that dashed line, entire "File" submenu appears in a separate frame.

I can't find anything about the feature by googling for it. Could somebody
please point me to relevant documentation?

Thanks.

-- 
Sergey.

Re: Undocumented menu feature?

[Jan Djärv]

Hi.

2 okt 2014 kl. 16:34 skrev Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com>:

> Hello,
> 
> I've asked this in help-gnu-emacs, but nobody seems to have a clue
> there. Hopefully some developer(s) knwow.
> 
> Here is the reference:
> 
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2014-10/msg00007.html
> 
> And here is my original question:
> 
> I suddenly found that my emacs (GNU Emacs 23.2.1, running on
> Debian/Gnome) is capable of "detaching" some sub-menus and putting them
> into separate frames. For example, if I click "File" in the main menu,
> submenu appears containing dashed line at the top, and if I click on
> that dashed line, entire "File" submenu appears in a separate frame.
> 
> I can't find anything about the feature by googling for it. Could somebody
> please point me to relevant documentation?

We don't have Emacs specific documentation for this, it is a standard Gtk+ feature.
About to be deprecated in Gtk+ I think.

	Jan D.

Re: Undocumented menu feature?

[Sergey Organov]

Jan Djärv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> writes:

> Hi.
>
> 2 okt 2014 kl. 16:34 skrev Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com>:
>
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I've asked this in help-gnu-emacs, but nobody seems to have a clue
>> there. Hopefully some developer(s) knwow.
>> 
>> Here is the reference:
>> 
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2014-10/msg00007.html
>> 
>> And here is my original question:
>> 
>> I suddenly found that my emacs (GNU Emacs 23.2.1, running on
>> Debian/Gnome) is capable of "detaching" some sub-menus and putting them
>> into separate frames. For example, if I click "File" in the main menu,
>> submenu appears containing dashed line at the top, and if I click on
>> that dashed line, entire "File" submenu appears in a separate frame.
>> 
>> I can't find anything about the feature by googling for it. Could somebody
>> please point me to relevant documentation?
>
> We don't have Emacs specific documentation for this, it is a standard
> Gtk+ feature. About to be deprecated in Gtk+ I think.

Thanks, but first I don't see it in any other application but Emacs, and
second it looks to be somehow controlled from within Emacs:

Some of Emacs submenus do have it, and some don't. For example, in
"Options", the "Line Wrapping in this Buffer" submenu has the dashed
line, while neither "Mule (Multilingual Environment)" nor "Customize
Emacs" have one.

I can't figure any template, as some submenus of non-detachable menus
could be detachable, and vice versa. Moreover, ["Tools" "Spell
Checking"] has this active dashed line right in the middle (between 
"Complete Word Fragment" and "Complete Word"), not at the top.

The latter makes one think it's some special kind of separator, but I
fail to see something relevant in "22.17.1.3 Menu Separators."

How do I control it from Emacs?

-- 
Sergey.

Re: Undocumented menu feature?

[Jan Djärv]

Hi.

2 okt 2014 kl. 17:46 skrev Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com>:

> Jan Djärv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> writes:
> 
>> Hi.
>> 
>> 2 okt 2014 kl. 16:34 skrev Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com>:
>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> I've asked this in help-gnu-emacs, but nobody seems to have a clue
>>> there. Hopefully some developer(s) knwow.
>>> 
>>> Here is the reference:
>>> 
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2014-10/msg00007.html
>>> 
>>> And here is my original question:
>>> 
>>> I suddenly found that my emacs (GNU Emacs 23.2.1, running on
>>> Debian/Gnome) is capable of "detaching" some sub-menus and putting them
>>> into separate frames. For example, if I click "File" in the main menu,
>>> submenu appears containing dashed line at the top, and if I click on
>>> that dashed line, entire "File" submenu appears in a separate frame.
>>> 
>>> I can't find anything about the feature by googling for it. Could somebody
>>> please point me to relevant documentation?
>> 
>> We don't have Emacs specific documentation for this, it is a standard
>> Gtk+ feature. About to be deprecated in Gtk+ I think.
> 
> Thanks, but first I don't see it in any other application but Emacs, and
> second it looks to be somehow controlled from within Emacs:
> 
> Some of Emacs submenus do have it, and some don't. For example, in
> "Options", the "Line Wrapping in this Buffer" submenu has the dashed
> line, while neither "Mule (Multilingual Environment)" nor "Customize
> Emacs" have one.
> 
> I can't figure any template, as some submenus of non-detachable menus
> could be detachable, and vice versa. Moreover, ["Tools" "Spell
> Checking"] has this active dashed line right in the middle (between 
> "Complete Word Fragment" and "Complete Word"), not at the top.

I don't have this, it mihgt be a Gtk theme issue.  I have dashed lines on all menus at the top.

> 
> The latter makes one think it's some special kind of separator, but I
> fail to see something relevant in "22.17.1.3 Menu Separators."
> 
> How do I control it from Emacs?


You don't.  As it is going away, we are not doing much with it. 

	Jan D.

Re: Undocumented menu feature?

[Stephen Berman]

On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 18:50:24 +0200 Jan Djärv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> wrote:

> Hi.
>
> 2 okt 2014 kl. 17:46 skrev Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com>:
>
>> Jan Djärv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> writes:
>> 
>>> Hi.
>>> 
>>> 2 okt 2014 kl. 16:34 skrev Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com>:
>>> 
>>>> Hello,
>>>> 
>>>> I've asked this in help-gnu-emacs, but nobody seems to have a clue
>>>> there. Hopefully some developer(s) knwow.
>>>> 
>>>> Here is the reference:
>>>> 
>>>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2014-10/msg00007.html
>>>> 
>>>> And here is my original question:
>>>> 
>>>> I suddenly found that my emacs (GNU Emacs 23.2.1, running on
>>>> Debian/Gnome) is capable of "detaching" some sub-menus and putting them
>>>> into separate frames. For example, if I click "File" in the main menu,
>>>> submenu appears containing dashed line at the top, and if I click on
>>>> that dashed line, entire "File" submenu appears in a separate frame.
>>>> 
>>>> I can't find anything about the feature by googling for it. Could somebody
>>>> please point me to relevant documentation?
>>> 
>>> We don't have Emacs specific documentation for this, it is a standard
>>> Gtk+ feature. About to be deprecated in Gtk+ I think.
>> 
>> Thanks, but first I don't see it in any other application but Emacs, and
>> second it looks to be somehow controlled from within Emacs:
>> 
>> Some of Emacs submenus do have it, and some don't. For example, in
>> "Options", the "Line Wrapping in this Buffer" submenu has the dashed
>> line, while neither "Mule (Multilingual Environment)" nor "Customize
>> Emacs" have one.
>> 
>> I can't figure any template, as some submenus of non-detachable menus
>> could be detachable, and vice versa. Moreover, ["Tools" "Spell
>> Checking"] has this active dashed line right in the middle (between 
>> "Complete Word Fragment" and "Complete Word"), not at the top.
>
> I don't have this, it mihgt be a Gtk theme issue.  I have dashed lines on all
> menus at the top.

I also don't see the dashed line in the middle of the submenues Sergey
refers to; however, I did see it once in the Todo mode submenu "Display
and Printing", but after leaving and revisiting the Todo buffer, the
dashed line was at the top of that submenu, as with all other submenues,
and I haven't seen the odd display again, so perhaps there is some kind
of timing issue or race condition in the Gtk display.

On the other hand, I do confirm the lack of a dashed line in the Options
submenu "Customize Emacs", also with -Q and every time I've tried since
the OP prompted me to look; so this seems to be a different bug.
(However, that submenu is the only one where I've seen the dashed line
missing; unlike the OP, I do see the line in the "Mule" submenu.)

Steve Berman

Re: Undocumented menu feature?

[Jan Djärv]

Den 2014-10-03 22:42, Stephen Berman skrev:
> On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 18:50:24 +0200 Jan Djärv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> wrote:
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> 2 okt 2014 kl. 17:46 skrev Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Jan Djärv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> writes:
>>>
>>>> Hi.
>>>>
>>>> 2 okt 2014 kl. 16:34 skrev Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> I've asked this in help-gnu-emacs, but nobody seems to have a clue
>>>>> there. Hopefully some developer(s) knwow.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is the reference:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2014-10/msg00007.html
>>>>>
>>>>> And here is my original question:
>>>>>
>>>>> I suddenly found that my emacs (GNU Emacs 23.2.1, running on
>>>>> Debian/Gnome) is capable of "detaching" some sub-menus and putting them
>>>>> into separate frames. For example, if I click "File" in the main menu,
>>>>> submenu appears containing dashed line at the top, and if I click on
>>>>> that dashed line, entire "File" submenu appears in a separate frame.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't find anything about the feature by googling for it. Could somebody
>>>>> please point me to relevant documentation?
>>>>
>>>> We don't have Emacs specific documentation for this, it is a standard
>>>> Gtk+ feature. About to be deprecated in Gtk+ I think.
>>>
>>> Thanks, but first I don't see it in any other application but Emacs, and
>>> second it looks to be somehow controlled from within Emacs:
>>>
>>> Some of Emacs submenus do have it, and some don't. For example, in
>>> "Options", the "Line Wrapping in this Buffer" submenu has the dashed
>>> line, while neither "Mule (Multilingual Environment)" nor "Customize
>>> Emacs" have one.
>>>
>>> I can't figure any template, as some submenus of non-detachable menus
>>> could be detachable, and vice versa. Moreover, ["Tools" "Spell
>>> Checking"] has this active dashed line right in the middle (between
>>> "Complete Word Fragment" and "Complete Word"), not at the top.
>>
>> I don't have this, it mihgt be a Gtk theme issue.  I have dashed lines on all
>> menus at the top.
>
> I also don't see the dashed line in the middle of the submenues Sergey
> refers to; however, I did see it once in the Todo mode submenu "Display
> and Printing", but after leaving and revisiting the Todo buffer, the
> dashed line was at the top of that submenu, as with all other submenues,
> and I haven't seen the odd display again, so perhaps there is some kind
> of timing issue or race condition in the Gtk display.
>
> On the other hand, I do confirm the lack of a dashed line in the Options
> submenu "Customize Emacs", also with -Q and every time I've tried since
> the OP prompted me to look; so this seems to be a different bug.
> (However, that submenu is the only one where I've seen the dashed line
> missing; unlike the OP, I do see the line in the "Mule" submenu.)

Bugs where present, I have fixed them in trunk.
I can understand how the tearoff in the middle of the menu could happen, but I 
have not seen it.  Fixed now.

	Jan D.

Re: Undocumented menu feature?

[Stephen Berman]

On Sat, 04 Oct 2014 14:30:03 +0200 Jan Djärv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> wrote:

> Den 2014-10-03 22:42, Stephen Berman skrev:
>
>> I also don't see the dashed line in the middle of the submenues Sergey
>> refers to; however, I did see it once in the Todo mode submenu "Display
>> and Printing", but after leaving and revisiting the Todo buffer, the
>> dashed line was at the top of that submenu, as with all other submenues,
>> and I haven't seen the odd display again, so perhaps there is some kind
>> of timing issue or race condition in the Gtk display.
>>
>> On the other hand, I do confirm the lack of a dashed line in the Options
>> submenu "Customize Emacs", also with -Q and every time I've tried since
>> the OP prompted me to look; so this seems to be a different bug.
>> (However, that submenu is the only one where I've seen the dashed line
>> missing; unlike the OP, I do see the line in the "Mule" submenu.)
>
> Bugs where present, I have fixed them in trunk.

I confirm that the "Customize Emacs" submenu now has the dashed line and
is detachable; thanks.  (Again, that's the only problematic case I've seen.)

> I can understand how the tearoff in the middle of the menu could happen, but I
> have not seen it.  Fixed now.

Thanks (though I couldn't reproduce the one aberrant instance I saw).

Steve Berman

Re: Undocumented menu feature?

[Sergey Organov]

Jan Djärv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> writes:
> Den 2014-10-03 22:42, Stephen Berman skrev:
>> On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 18:50:24 +0200 Jan Djärv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> 2 okt 2014 kl. 17:46 skrev Sergey Organov <sorganov@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Jan Djärv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> writes:
>>>>
[...]

>>>> Thanks, but first I don't see it in any other application but Emacs, and
>>>> second it looks to be somehow controlled from within Emacs:
>>>>
>>>> Some of Emacs submenus do have it, and some don't. For example, in
>>>> "Options", the "Line Wrapping in this Buffer" submenu has the dashed
>>>> line, while neither "Mule (Multilingual Environment)" nor "Customize
>>>> Emacs" have one.
>>>>
>>>> I can't figure any template, as some submenus of non-detachable menus
>>>> could be detachable, and vice versa. Moreover, ["Tools" "Spell
>>>> Checking"] has this active dashed line right in the middle (between
>>>> "Complete Word Fragment" and "Complete Word"), not at the top.
>>>
>>> I don't have this, it mihgt be a Gtk theme issue.  I have dashed lines on all
>>> menus at the top.
>>
>> I also don't see the dashed line in the middle of the submenues Sergey
>> refers to; however, I did see it once in the Todo mode submenu "Display
>> and Printing", but after leaving and revisiting the Todo buffer, the
>> dashed line was at the top of that submenu, as with all other submenues,
>> and I haven't seen the odd display again, so perhaps there is some kind
>> of timing issue or race condition in the Gtk display.
>>
>> On the other hand, I do confirm the lack of a dashed line in the Options
>> submenu "Customize Emacs", also with -Q and every time I've tried since
>> the OP prompted me to look; so this seems to be a different bug.
>> (However, that submenu is the only one where I've seen the dashed line
>> missing; unlike the OP, I do see the line in the "Mule" submenu.)
>
> Bugs where present, I have fixed them in trunk.
> I can understand how the tearoff in the middle of the menu could
> happen, but I have not seen it.  Fixed now.
>

Ah, so it was probably "controlled" by a bug. Thank you for looking at
the issue!

-- Sergey.