From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#18590: 24.3.93; Scrolling changes/forgets selection Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 13:29:07 +0000 (UTC) Organization: muc.de e.V. Message-ID: References: <87k34li7ex.fsf@moondust.localdomain> <83ppedkwrs.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1412170287 23827 80.91.229.3 (1 Oct 2014 13:31:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 13:31:27 +0000 (UTC) To: gnu-emacs-bug@moderators.isc.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 01 15:31:20 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XZJzz-0006SO-TB for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 15:31:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55454 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XZJzz-00040h-Hk for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:31:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36674) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XZJyx-0003SH-R9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:30:25 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XZJyn-0003hT-Pi for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:30:15 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:37175) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XZJyn-0003hA-Ng for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:30:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XZJym-0006k4-7h for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:30:05 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <87k34li7ex.fsf@moondust.localdomain> Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2014 13:30:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 18590 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.141217018125861 (code B ref -1); Wed, 01 Oct 2014 13:30:03 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2014 13:29:41 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56972 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XZJyO-0006j1-CU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:29:40 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34738) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XZJyJ-0006ir-Et for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:29:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XZJy9-0003I0-Fw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:29:35 -0400 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:36956) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XZJy9-0003Hk-Dq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:29:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36403) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XZJy1-0003G2-Tr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:29:25 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XZJxu-0003Do-AV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:29:17 -0400 Original-Received: from moderators.individual.net ([130.133.4.7]:36270) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XZJxu-0003Df-3f for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:29:10 -0400 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1] helo=mail.muc.de) by moderators.individual.net (Exim 4.82) for gnu-emacs-bug@moderators.isc.org with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1XZJxt-001P9j-Gn>; Wed, 01 Oct 2014 15:29:09 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 32600 invoked by uid 8); 1 Oct 2014 13:29:07 -0000 Original-Path: not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.bug Original-Lines: 62 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: news.muc.de Original-X-Trace: colin.muc.de 1412170147 32597 193.149.48.2 (1 Oct 2014 13:29:07 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: news-admin@muc.de Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 13:29:07 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: tin/2.2.0-20131224 ("Lochindaal") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/8.4-RELEASE (amd64)) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:31:17 -0400 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:93958 Archived-At: N. Jackson wrote: > At 11:28 -0300 on Tuesday 2014-09-30, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Yes, there's a good reason: a selection in Emacs is always between >> point and the mark, and when scrolling causes it to go off the >> displayed portion of the buffer, Emacs moves point to bring it back >> into view, which changes the selected portion of the text. > Hmm... I see. But why does point need to be visible? > It makes sense to me for a program to scroll the window to keep point in > view when the user moves point; but it doesn't make sense to me for a > program to move point when the user scrolls the window. Suppose you've scrolled the window so that point is no longer in it, and you now want to set point to somewhere now visible; how are you going to do it? How are you going to indicate the place to put point? Nearly all commands which work at a specific position do so at point. Your answer is going to be "click with the mouse". But Emacs, as a fundamental design feature, works on mouse-less systems. > After all, point is the locus of the user's interaction with the > contents of the buffer; presumably if they want to move that locus > somewhere else, the user will move point explicitly. It makes little > sense for the program to move point in this case -- even if it happens > to have correctly read the mind of the user and the user really was > scrolling the window with the intention of moving point, the program has > no way of guessing in which column and row the user was going to put it, > so it can essentially never do the right thing. When I scroll a window, I always want point in that window, so that I can easily start editing things there, etc.. In the instances when I want to go back, I set mark first before scrolling, or scroll with a command that itself sets the mark. > Anyway, if point must be moved, please can it be put back automatically > where it belongs when the user scrolls the window back and point's > correct location is once again in view? Consider this a wishlist request. > I'd also like to have typing, or any command involving point, scroll the > window so that the correct location of point comes into view and then act on > point where it belongs rather than where Emacs has "randomly" moved it. That is a "feature" I most hate with so many GUI editing programs. I have scrolled a buffer somewhere to look at things, and absent-mindedly start typing, or even worse touch an arrow key, or something - then BANG!!!! my entire mental context is explosively wiped out, scrolling the buffer back to point and leaving me no way to go back to where I was looking at. > Of course this would have to be an optional behaviour, something like a > (setq point-follows-window nil). Consider it as second wishlist request? I'm glad you said that. ;-) > Thanks. > Regards, > N. Jackson. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).