From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tom Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why does the tutorial talk about C-n/C-p etc? Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 11:36:19 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <87y49q64eg.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87wpp9dkux.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83twkbfofd.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457869016 2028 80.91.229.3 (13 Mar 2016 11:36:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 11:36:56 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 13 12:36:47 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1af4KD-00026B-3X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 12:36:45 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35579 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1af4KC-0002db-JQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 07:36:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39179) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1af4Jy-0002dT-DS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 07:36:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1af4Jv-0002F7-7t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 07:36:30 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:50461) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1af4Jv-0002Eq-1U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 07:36:27 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1af4Jt-0001ut-AA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 12:36:25 +0100 Original-Received: from 195-38-125-44.pool.digikabel.hu ([195.38.125.44]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 12:36:25 +0100 Original-Received: from adatgyujto by 195-38-125-44.pool.digikabel.hu with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 12:36:25 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 21 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sea.gmane.org User-Agent: Loom/3.14 (http://gmane.org/) X-Loom-IP: 195.38.125.44 (Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:44.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/44.0) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201586 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii gnu.org> writes: > > > > I think we should first mention that arrow keys work, then invite > > users to learn C-b etc. saying that editing will be faster. > > We already do precisely that. > If arrows keys work out of the box then C-p/n etc. should be in a section called advanced cursor control or something like that and it should be moved somewhere to the end. Insertion and deletion, frames, undo, etc. are more important for a new user than relearning the cursor keys, so emacs style cursor movement can be considered an advanced topic which can be learned after the user can use emacs with the arrow keys. And if it's an advanced topic then it would be better placed at the end of the tutorial with other advanced topics like recursive editing after the basics like windows, undo and stuff.