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* Re: Emacs Lisp's future (was: Guile emacs thread (again))
@ 2014-09-17  2:57 Lally Singh
  2014-09-17 11:01 ` Tom
  2014-09-17 11:43 ` Emacs Lisp's future (was: Guile emacs thread (again)) Richard Stallman
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Lally Singh @ 2014-09-17  2:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

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So if this a runtime system issue, what about elisp on LLVM?  Let the LLVM
project handle the backend and performance issues, and emacs can maintain
one language frontend.  There are plenty of people working on that, so
emacs can ride that for almost free.

I'm assuming that there are reasons why it doesn't work, as someone
(apparently) did the work some time ago:
https://github.com/boostpro/emacs-llvm-jit  Perhaps it just needs a little
TLC?

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Emacs Lisp's future (was: Guile emacs thread (again))
@ 2014-09-17  8:22 Nic Ferrier
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Nic Ferrier @ 2014-09-17  8:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

Stefan Monnier wrote:

> First, of course we can keep on evolving Elisp on its own.  This has
> worked OK for the last 30 years, so it's not such a terrible choice.
> The main problems I see with that:
> - Elisp is slow and as CPUs aren't getting faster, its slowness makes itself
>   noticed more often.
> - Lack of some features, most notably FFI and concurrency.
> - Lack of manpower.
>
> This last point is for me the strongest motivation to try and move to
> some other system, where we could use other people's work.

I don't see that this is going to happen though. Emacs is an unusual
system. Moving the extension language to another community is just going
to cause more arguing along the lines of "this is how X lang does it" vs
"but we're Emacs and don't want to do it like that".

My view is we should improve the contribution process to get more
manpower for elisp. We have been doing that as a community. As a
reminder we have:

- adopted packaging allowing many more people to contribute pure elisp
- accepted a move to the most commonly used support tools (git, etc...)
- started to talk about changing the documentation format to a more
  common format

I see a new spirit of openness and willingness to change in the Emacs
community and it's really great.

I would implore you, my fellow emacs hackers, not to make too hasty a
decision on platform. Guile-Emacs may be cool, but if we can increase
developer diversity in Emacs through git and so on (I for one will be
contributing to the core thanks to this) then we may get all the
advantages of the Guile VM without having to go to Guile.

I'm sure there is more that we could do to get more man and woman
power. I hope that we consider those things as well as techy projects
like switching to Guile's VM.


Nic



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs Lisp's future (was: Guile emacs thread (again))
@ 2014-09-17  7:38 Kristian Nygaard Jensen
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Kristian Nygaard Jensen @ 2014-09-17  7:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs devel

 > Of course, that's for the language side, but on the implementation side,
 > I don't really know what Common-Lisp implementation we could re-use
 > (both GNU implementations are dormant, so there's no manpower for us
 > tap into).  Still: there are many Common-Lisp implementations out there,
 > so there's probably one that could work for us.

Embeddable Common-Lisp (http://sourceforge.net/projects/ecls/) seems 
alive, it is lgpl, so there would be no license issue

-- 

Kristian Nygaard Jensen




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Guile emacs thread (again)
@ 2014-09-11 16:29 Christopher Allan Webber
  2014-09-16 15:50 ` Emacs Lisp's future (was: Guile emacs thread (again)) Stefan Monnier
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Christopher Allan Webber @ 2014-09-11 16:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

Hello!  It's been a while since the topic has come up on this list, but
many of us are interested in it, and maybe some developers don't know,
and I hadn't seen any conversations on the list despite recent progress.

Anyway, it seems that BT Templeton's emacs on guile project this summer
has gone fairly well, and it looks like almost everything runs.  See:
  http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GuileEmacs

I remember reading Andy Wingo's email about this a few years ago,
"guile and emacs and elisp, oh my!":
  https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-04/msg00665.html

I found it very inspiring.  It seems those things are fairly close.

So this email is partly a:
 - What now?  What's the chance of work towards guilemacs moving over to
   an official emacs git branch, and that port happening, anytime soon?
 - Is anyone running it?  How's it going for you?

(I'm mid-compile of the guile wip branch right now...!)
 - Chris



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2014-09-18  8:43 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 19+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2014-09-17  2:57 Emacs Lisp's future (was: Guile emacs thread (again)) Lally Singh
2014-09-17 11:01 ` Tom
2014-09-17 12:28   ` Emacs Lisp's future Stefan Monnier
2014-09-17 12:58     ` Tom
2014-09-17 13:39       ` Óscar Fuentes
2014-09-17 14:15         ` Tom
2014-09-17 11:43 ` Emacs Lisp's future (was: Guile emacs thread (again)) Richard Stallman
2014-09-17 14:21   ` Lally Singh
2014-09-17 15:04     ` Emacs Lisp's future Stefan Monnier
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2014-09-17  8:22 Emacs Lisp's future (was: Guile emacs thread (again)) Nic Ferrier
2014-09-17  7:38 Kristian Nygaard Jensen
2014-09-11 16:29 Guile emacs thread (again) Christopher Allan Webber
2014-09-16 15:50 ` Emacs Lisp's future (was: Guile emacs thread (again)) Stefan Monnier
2014-09-16 16:03   ` Lennart Borgman
2014-09-17 18:24     ` Jorgen Schaefer
2014-09-17 19:25       ` Lally Singh
2014-09-18  2:07       ` Alexis
2014-09-18  8:43     ` Emilio Lopes
2014-09-16 16:09   ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-16 16:54   ` Lars Brinkhoff

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