From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tom Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is intellisense features integration in =?utf-8?b?RW1hY3MJdGVjaG5pY2FsbHkJcG9zc2libGU/?= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 19:58:21 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <1390269670.2888.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <83zjmpf80o.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1390334331 3306 80.91.229.3 (21 Jan 2014 19:58:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 19:58:51 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 21 20:58:59 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W5hTP-0003NZ-DL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 20:58:59 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60316 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W5hTP-0000as-3n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 14:58:59 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46823) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W5hTH-0000Zr-Mc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 14:58:56 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W5hTB-0002lG-Ax for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 14:58:51 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:38064) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W5hTB-0002l2-3P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 14:58:45 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W5hT8-0003DZ-PO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 20:58:42 +0100 Original-Received: from 94-21-242-18.pool.digikabel.hu ([94.21.242.18]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 20:58:42 +0100 Original-Received: from adatgyujto by 94-21-242-18.pool.digikabel.hu with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 20:58:42 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 59 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sea.gmane.org User-Agent: Loom/3.14 (http://gmane.org/) X-Loom-IP: 94.21.242.18 (Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 6.1) Presto/2.12.388 Version/12.16) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:168851 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii gnu.org> writes: > > According to this logic something like the rewrite of the display > engine that happened between Emacs 20 and Emacs 21, or bidirectional > editing support for Emacs 24 would never have happened. But it did. > Each one of these took many man-months of work. Yes, but I don't think their complexity is comparable to, for example, the Java support of Eclipse which has been continously developed for many years by a bunch of people. Repeating this effort is no small feat. > Look at the amount of changes that get committed every day to the > Emacs repository, and try to estimate the effort that goes into that. > Sometimes I wish I had such resources at my disposal on my daytime > job. Yet, Emacs cannot provide the same level of language support like other tools for Java and C++, so it is apparent the language support part has not enough resources. > I think the shortage is not in development resources, but in motivated > individuals who'd sit down and do the job, and lobby others to come on > board and help. Volunteers are welcome. Motivation can have multiple forms. For example, my idea was financial motivation: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2012-04/msg00476.html The idea is to make it possible for people to sponsor specific features and there is enough bounty then someone will come and do it. If people don't want to work on them in their free time, then users can create a money pool (everyone giving a small amount) and if enough users donates money then someone can work on it full time until the feature is implemented. > Personally, I think implementing such features via external programs > is a terrible design. It will never be smooth and responsive enough, > and on top of that you'd need to track development of those other > tools. I agree a native solution would be better, but for Java Eclim provides these features right now, while a native solution (if it happens at all) will provide them next year, or a year after that? http://www.skybert.net/emacs/java/ > And what if they become abandoned some day? These interface packages should not be complicated. They just talk to the server and then present the data to an emacs frontend (like autocomplete). So if a tool is abandoned then there is an other tool instead, and only this interface layer needs to be reimplemented which shouldn't be a lot of work.