From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Adrian Robert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal to improve the nomenclature of scrolling directions Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 17:24:08 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <87a9uwumbv.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <87bofbv7xe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1352222684 28376 80.91.229.3 (6 Nov 2012 17:24:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 17:24:44 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 06 18:24:54 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TVmtP-0002h7-PI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 18:24:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36074 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TVmtG-0005iB-RX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:24:42 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39265) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TVmt8-0005RJ-Cj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:24:41 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TVmt2-0005PV-AU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:24:34 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:41076) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TVmt2-0005Om-3m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:24:28 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TVmt8-0002UX-MQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 18:24:35 +0100 Original-Received: from killzone.appliedtheory.com ([207.127.103.2]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 18:24:34 +0100 Original-Received: from Adrian.B.Robert by killzone.appliedtheory.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 18:24:34 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 26 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sea.gmane.org User-Agent: Loom/3.14 (http://gmane.org/) X-Loom-IP: 207.127.103.2 (Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_8_2) AppleWebKit/536.26.14 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0.1 Safari/536.26.14) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:154700 Archived-At: Stephen J. Turnbull xemacs.org> writes: > > Nix writes: > > > (Even on mobile devices with touchscreens, where you swipe the text > > to move the text up, that operation is *still* called 'scrolling > > down'.) > > Which drives me nuts, because it's the text that moves (and that's > true in editors, as well). For me it's "page down" but "scroll the > text up". "Scroll [nothing in particular but Do What I Mean dammit] > " is just uninterpretable to me. Sure, the text moves, but we don't care about it. "Scroll down" refers to what happens with the *viewer's* perspective into the content that we are focusing on. We COULD say, "move the text up so I can see the last section,", but it doesn't come across very smoothly, precisely because we have this focus. Like we could also say, "the lion is moving forwards," instead of "the lion is coming towards us," but I'll be happy to bet with you which version gets used in real life. :) (And why "up" / "down" instead of "forward" / "back", there are many reasons but the biggest is of course how we arrange text on a printed page. "Scrolling" is more amusing, especially since by the time computers were developed it's doubtful many people had so much as SEEN a scroll in real life.)