From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tom Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: WikEmacs as Emacs as Crowdfund database Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 16:13:40 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <877gx9ypx2.fsf@gmail.com> <87pqb0yi8y.fsf@gmail.com> <81y5pkg42r.fsf_-_@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1336580059 18238 80.91.229.3 (9 May 2012 16:14:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 16:14:19 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 09 18:14:18 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SS9Wo-0003nQ-Fg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 09 May 2012 18:14:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34779 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SS9Wn-00086h-N6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 09 May 2012 12:14:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49043) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SS9Wb-000862-Fm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 May 2012 12:14:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SS9WU-00083L-Qr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 May 2012 12:14:01 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:51250) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SS9WU-00081H-8y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 May 2012 12:13:54 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SS9WS-0003bw-30 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 May 2012 18:13:52 +0200 Original-Received: from 178-164-187-217.pool.digikabel.hu ([178.164.187.217]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 09 May 2012 18:13:52 +0200 Original-Received: from adatgyujto by 178-164-187-217.pool.digikabel.hu with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 09 May 2012 18:13:52 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 84 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sea.gmane.org User-Agent: Loom/3.14 (http://gmane.org/) X-Loom-IP: 178.164.187.217 (Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 6.1; U; en) Presto/2.10.229 Version/11.62) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:150394 Archived-At: Jambunathan K gmail.com> writes: > Instead of using Emacswiki, I suggest that you can consider WikEmacs - > http://wikemacs.org/wiki/Main_Page. > The problem with WikEmacs that it's a very new project and it's not yet clear how the initial enhusiasm of its editors will last. EmacsWiki is already here for several years, so it's much more likely to be kept working in the future. > I suggest: > > 1. A project page for each of the crowdfunded project. > 2. A set of users who categorize themselves as a proposer, > sponsor of a project. > 3. We need a set of users who declare themselves as crowdfund > workhorses or ELisp freelancers. > > A sponsor will pledge his few $s to a table in page (1) which a (3) can > use to assess the viability. I'm not sure if it's actually a good idea to have actual pledges there. It wouldn't make a good impression if one pledges money and then when the actual crowdfunding starts he doesn't stand behind his pledge. In case of Kickstarter and co. it's no problem, because there you actually make the payment which goes to the pool and it is refunded if the fundraising is unsuccessful. Maybe it's better and simpler to have only a simple voting system where people can add their +1 votes to features they like. Then developers can skim the list of of features and see what features are requested by lots of users. And when a developers chooses a feature to implement then he starts the actual proposal on one of the fundraising sites where he can set the amount which he needs to implement the feature. The advantage of this model is that the donators actually see who they are donating to, and the developer has to convince users to donate him money by writing a detailed feature proposal with a time plan and describing the qualifications (previous projects, etc.) he has to implement the feature. Of course, this can also work if people are voting on features with pledges instead of +1 votes, but then (due to the lack of actual payment processing) there can be a discrepancy between the offered and the actually funded amount which can discourage people (users and developers) from taking part in such crowdfunding projects in the future. > I still would like to see a writeup on your original proposal > irrespective of whether someone would run with it. Remember a > crowdfund-workhorse may not know Java or python, so you need to add few > words that give the freelancer some starting point. > The problem is I don't actually use Java, nor Eclipse. Java support was only an example for a feature request which I see very often on forums ("Emacs is nice, but Eclipse has better Java support."). A proposal should be written by somebody who actually uses Java and Eclipse day to day and knows what the most useful features are what Eclipse provides for a developer. What's more: Optimally better Java support for Emacs should be implemented by somebody who actually uses Eclipse or some other tool with Java daily out of necessity, because he'd be more motivated than somebody who doesn't even know what day to day Java development entails. That's what I meant when I said previously in this thread that this development model could be about scratching the developers own itch (and others') with crowdfunding. Anyway, I have very little time lately, but I created a crowdfuding page on EmacsWiki as a start and added a few Java features as examples. Everyone please add more features to this page which you'd like to see implemented with crowdfunding and feel free to shape the page if you have a better idea of how it could serve as a collection of ideas for crowdfunding: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/IdeasForCrowdFunding