From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tom Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:27:59 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87wrt0e81n.fsf@telefonica.net> <62E9699C07054418AB66F9C5FCB54E5C@us.oracle.com> <87sk3oe3la.fsf@telefonica.net> <1154D96E7D2F401D849266F359E44BB9@us.oracle.com> <87ocecdzou.fsf@telefonica.net> <2256C17F740A425884AD551DE7758056@us.oracle.com> <87fwzodqqm.fsf@telefonica.net> <5138CDF30B2D4B778F948015614DA7BC@us.oracle.com> <87iq4ijtdy.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <838w5dgln1.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279186114 32199 80.91.229.12 (15 Jul 2010 09:28:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:28:34 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 15 11:28:33 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZKk2-0000Ds-99 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 11:28:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58163 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZKk1-0003ij-MI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 05:28:29 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=53402 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZKjt-0003hI-2c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 05:28:21 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZKjm-0001GH-Ok for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 05:28:20 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:48230) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZKjm-0001G4-Co for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 05:28:14 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZKjg-00005l-2Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 11:28:08 +0200 Original-Received: from 94-21-242-87.pool.digikabel.hu ([94.21.242.87]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 11:28:08 +0200 Original-Received: from levelhalom by 94-21-242-87.pool.digikabel.hu with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 11:28:08 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 42 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sea.gmane.org User-Agent: Loom/3.14 (http://gmane.org/) X-Loom-IP: 94.21.242.87 (Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 6.1; U; en) Presto/2.6.30 Version/10.60) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127339 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii gnu.org> writes: > > How on earth are those two related?? CUA Mode already exists and need > just be enabled; the IDE features need at best a lot of work, if not > implementation from ground up. Enabling CUA by default modifies the > most basic keybindings; adding IDE features changes nothing until the > user actually activates the IDE. Etc., etc. > The logic goes: 1. we don't have a killer application out of the box with zero configuration like refactoring support, etc. It needs lots of work. 2. we have a UI which is very different from the ones in popular systems (e.g. keybindings) 3. since we don't have a killer feature which is instantly appealing to newcomers and we have a different ui, they usually say, in my experience: Why should I bother with it? Why should I learn new keys for copy/paste if there is not killer feature? 4. by making the UI more similar (by default, without any necessary configuration) to other popular systems, we lower the barrier of entry. Casual users can try emacs with no upfront effort and some of them will be interested to learn more about it if they like what they see and experience. First impression matters. 5. If more casual users try emacs the more chance there is they become regular user and maybe even contributors. 6. By taking the conservative estimate that 1 percent of new users become emacs hackers who contribute something worthwhile (code, documentation, testing, etc.) then if we can attract 1000 more new users we can get 10 good contributors. If we can attract 10000, we get a 100. That's why I think making emacs more appealing to new users is important. More users means more hackers (that 1 percent, that is) and more hackers means more development resources which leads to a better emacs.