From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tom Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 09:20:15 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87wrt0e81n.fsf@telefonica.net> <62E9699C07054418AB66F9C5FCB54E5C@us.oracle.com> <87sk3oe3la.fsf@telefonica.net> <1154D96E7D2F401D849266F359E44BB9@us.oracle.com> <87ocecdzou.fsf@telefonica.net> <87hbk4i1m4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87bpacdpwl.fsf@telefonica.net> <878w5fizcb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87630jiwj7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279012846 26111 80.91.229.12 (13 Jul 2010 09:20:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 09:20:46 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 13 11:20:43 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYbfP-0007os-8r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:20:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54742 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYbfO-00068g-IC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:20:42 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=52354 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYbfD-00066h-7l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:20:32 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYbfB-0000t9-Ls for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:20:31 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:42180) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYbfB-0000t3-Fg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:20:29 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYbf8-0007ks-47 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:20:26 +0200 Original-Received: from 94-21-154-78.pool.digikabel.hu ([94.21.154.78]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:20:26 +0200 Original-Received: from levelhalom by 94-21-154-78.pool.digikabel.hu with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:20:26 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 17 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sea.gmane.org User-Agent: Loom/3.14 (http://gmane.org/) X-Loom-IP: 94.21.154.78 (Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 6.1; U; en) Presto/2.6.30 Version/10.60) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127161 Archived-At: Stephen J. Turnbull sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> writes: > > My point is that it's not a question of determination. It's that > users who think in terms of "alien" and "bother" won't convert to > Emacs hackers anyway, whether or not they are competent programmers. > They focus on other goals, and if Emacs were natural and effortless > for them, they would simply forget it, not invest the saved effort in > improving it. > > Sure, there are reasons to support those users. "They will become > Emacs hackers" simply isn't one of them. I disagree. A small percent of new users always turns into hackers and the more users you can attract the more hackers you can get. It's not about effortlessness, only making the road a bit easier to walk.