From: Adrian Robert <Adrian.B.Robert@gmail.com>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Efforts to attract more users?
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 13:28:08 +0000 (UTC) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <loom.20100708T151029-389@post.gmane.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: m3r5ject99.fsf@verona.se
<joakim <at> verona.se> writes:
> I would like to emphasize that I don't think Emacs should do things the
> same way Eclipse does them, we need to find Emacsy ways. Perhaps by
> improving the Emacs documentation so it is a more obvious entry point
> rather than clicking about in menus. Perhaps the info documentation
> could be enhanced so it works more like the web, with improved search
> facilities, support for Wizards in the info documentation, etc.
It's hard to say. I see lots of developers even using Eclipse in completely
non-optimal ways, because there seems to be some kind of bias towards using
mouse and on-the-screen display elements for tasks. For example, laboriously
navigating a large class hierarchy using the tree display on the left to find a
class they know they name of, rather than just invoking "Find Resource" whether
by keystroke or menu. Even developers that know about the command still persist
in this. What is it? Habit, bias away from the keyboard?
Whatever it is, just adding eye candy or wizards to emacs won't change its
nature as a keyboard-oriented editing system, and add-ons like JDEE and ECB,
great as they are, are never going to match what a widget-oriented system like
Eclipse provides.
For that matter, why is VIM popular? I've never seen how the weird,
line-oriented, moded editing style has anything to compare in ease of use or
simplicitly to learn with emacs, yet developer after developer uses it as their
"second choice or remote" editor -- while considering emacs "too hard" or "too
complicated". (?)
I do think the basic mouse and selection interaction there is in emacs needs to
continue to be brought more in line with other other apps. The little things,
getting default line and word-wrapping modes right, enabling forward delete by
default for delete key, etc.. Maybe some kind of reasonable default right-click
menus (based on mode of course).
-Adrian
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-07-08 13:28 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 103+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2010-07-08 5:31 Efforts to attract more users? Ken Hori
2010-07-08 7:44 ` joakim
2010-07-08 13:28 ` Adrian Robert [this message]
2010-07-08 14:26 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-08 14:53 ` Stuart Hacking
2010-07-09 21:46 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-09 22:52 ` Christoph
2010-07-09 23:53 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-10 14:51 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-10 14:55 ` Christoph
2010-07-08 15:09 ` Teemu Likonen
2010-07-08 13:54 ` Stuart Hacking
2010-07-09 3:05 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-09 3:24 ` Bernardo Barros
2010-07-09 15:01 ` Stephen Eilert
2010-07-09 20:25 ` Rolando Pereira
2010-07-09 7:26 ` Aneesh Kumar K. V
2010-07-09 11:02 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-09 7:31 ` christian.lynbech
2010-07-09 11:04 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-09 11:24 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-09 11:41 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-09 12:58 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-09 13:09 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-09 16:09 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2010-07-09 16:42 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-09 17:05 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2010-07-09 17:07 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-09 17:24 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2010-07-09 17:29 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-10 0:03 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-10 19:15 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-11 2:43 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-10 0:03 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-10 0:11 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-10 0:16 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-10 0:28 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-10 23:43 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-11 2:40 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-11 2:56 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-11 3:13 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-12 0:23 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-12 1:41 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-12 7:43 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-12 8:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-12 12:37 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-12 13:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-12 8:21 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-12 7:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-12 8:05 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-12 8:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-12 8:38 ` Deniz Dogan
2010-07-12 8:53 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-09 7:33 ` Emacs learning curve (was Re: Efforts to attract more users?) christian.lynbech
2010-07-09 7:43 ` Emacs learning curve Masatake YAMATO
2010-07-09 11:01 ` Efforts to attract more users? Lennart Borgman
2010-07-11 4:37 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-11 10:48 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-11 13:24 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-11 13:55 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-11 13:59 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-11 14:13 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-11 14:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-11 15:01 ` Alan Mackenzie
2010-07-11 15:31 ` Bernardo Barros
2010-07-11 17:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-11 21:25 ` John Yates
2010-07-12 7:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-12 12:36 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-12 12:47 ` Stephen Eilert
2010-07-12 16:01 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-12 17:25 ` Bernardo Barros
2010-07-12 17:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-13 1:33 ` Why not Qt4? (hi, Drew! was: Efforts to attract more users?) Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-13 2:37 ` Efforts to attract more users? Miles Bader
2010-07-13 13:51 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-13 13:56 ` Deniz Dogan
2010-07-13 15:07 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-13 15:52 ` Deniz Dogan
2010-07-13 16:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-13 15:24 ` Bernardo Barros
2010-07-12 0:25 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-11 14:52 ` Bernardo Barros
2010-07-11 15:49 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-12 0:24 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-12 9:42 ` joakim
2010-07-09 12:05 ` Eric M. Ludlam
2010-07-09 12:23 ` Alex Ott
2010-07-09 14:33 ` Aneesh Kumar K. V
2010-07-12 1:57 ` CEDET speed issues [was Re: Efforts to attract more users?] Eric M. Ludlam
2010-07-09 15:39 ` Efforts to attract more users? Leo
2010-07-10 19:05 ` Tom Tromey
2010-07-08 16:56 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-08 23:28 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2010-07-08 23:56 ` Fren Zeee
2010-07-09 0:22 ` Bernardo Barros
2010-08-02 13:24 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-08-02 13:32 ` Bernardo Barros
2010-08-02 20:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-08-02 20:30 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-08-02 20:39 ` Jay Belanger
2010-08-03 6:40 ` Andreas Röhler
2010-08-03 8:11 ` Stuart Hacking
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