From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Alexandrov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#41532: Why use the mouse in Emacs? Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 06:57:10 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87zh9vgbkc.fsf@laposte.net> <304f1cd0-045c-4f34-924c-2ae2ca072cc0@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="33136"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Kevin Vigouroux , 41532@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed May 27 06:18:56 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jdnWo-0008Za-J6 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 27 May 2020 06:18:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46936 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jdnWm-0004nW-VC for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 27 May 2020 00:18:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59842) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jdnV1-0003oM-DG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 27 May 2020 00:17:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:36397) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jdnV1-0006GU-3m for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 27 May 2020 00:17:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jdnV1-0007Sh-0B for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 27 May 2020 00:17:03 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Dmitry Alexandrov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 04:17:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41532 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 41532-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41532.159055297628613 (code B ref 41532); Wed, 27 May 2020 04:17:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 41532) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 May 2020 04:16:16 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47941 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jdnUC-0007RF-FV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 27 May 2020 00:16:16 -0400 Original-Received: from relay-1.mailobj.net ([213.182.54.6]:42700) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jdnBx-0006xw-Ib for 41532@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 26 May 2020 23:57:22 -0400 Original-Received: from v-1c.localdomain (unknown [192.168.90.161]) by relay-1.mailobj.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5654C12F2; Wed, 27 May 2020 05:57:15 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by mail-1.net-c.com [213.182.54.15] with ESMTP Wed, 27 May 2020 05:57:15 +0200 (CEST) X-EA-Auth: c4KI1f6vATv2ZIbABfmKj5C+A+aaVTY83yY4t3roiHjHr3MhlD/KO2LSZaDU40kvDpDIrqC62PK0tToxfStru9VvliUp97Ah In-Reply-To: <304f1cd0-045c-4f34-924c-2ae2ca072cc0@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 25 May 2020 11:22:10 -0700 (PDT)") X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 27 May 2020 00:16:06 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:181084 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Drew Adams wrote: > The difference from some other applications, I think, is that some applic= ations pretty much _require_ you to use a mouse. Yep, and that=CA=BCs partly true even for Emacs. Especially, when it=CA=BC= s built with no GTK. IIRC, Lucid popup menus once were usable without mous= e, but they are not anymore for some reason, while --with-x-toolkit=3Dno me= nus have never been. There is M-x tmm-menubar, of course, but besides main menu there are also c= ontext menus. I have not done a good research, but at first sight I=CA=BCv= e failed to figure out how to access them without falling back to mouse. >> the Emacs graphical interface [in sense of use-dialog-box and use-file-d= ialog] is half broken. > > How so? Specifically, what's the problem? One thing that frustrated me once upon a time, was a dialog window I got tr= ying to close the last frame of server-less Emacs (FWIW, no mouse was invol= ved), that asked the usual question about saving buffers, blocking the sess= ion, but it had _no_ =E2=80=98cancel=E2=80=99 button. I could try to press =E2=80=98close window=E2=80=99 again, but it had not b= een quite obvious which of two UI design patterns Emacs would follow here: =E2=80=94 closing the dialog window =3D cancel (this happens to be the case= , after all); =E2=80=94 repeating the destructive command twice =3D force it (like e. g. = C-d in Bash when there are background jobs) =E2=80=94 definitely not what I= wanted. Perhaps, I was too stupid, but it took me a certain time to came to idea, t= hat toolkit dialogs in Emacs might accept C-g as well (yes, they do). --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iIMEARYIACsWIQRSX35grYEsI2F1K7TIsPhUjufz5wUCXs3lFg0cZGFnQGdudWku b3JnAAoJEMiw+FSO5/Pn9wsA+gL8GfK3zGxGzHN6yUMzVlxcR1eYkxEp4nFwe7oV HRAjAP4pPoJd9k/FWVkKJFpblxJD4GJFutxpFgx4jMapk7yMBQ== =ruUC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--