From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16763: 24.3.50; electric-indent annoyance: C-j doesn't indent Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 22:18:57 +0000 (UTC) Organization: muc.de e.V. Message-ID: References: <<87fvnkbbqx.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1392502849 11624 80.91.229.3 (15 Feb 2014 22:20:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 22:20:49 +0000 (UTC) To: gnu-emacs-bug@moderators.isc.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 15 23:20:55 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WEnbS-0002wH-Ru for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 23:20:55 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58793 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WEnbS-0000SW-Cp for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:20:54 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56196) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WEnai-0008Sd-LD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:20:14 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WEnac-00089k-Nq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:20:08 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:52691) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WEnac-00089Y-Jz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:20:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WEnac-0006iD-7Y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:20:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <87fvnkbbqx.fsf@gmail.com> Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 22:20:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16763 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.139250276725736 (code B ref -1); Sat, 15 Feb 2014 22:20:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Feb 2014 22:19:27 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53873 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WEna2-0006h1-RD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:19:27 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54273) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WEna0-0006gk-BG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:19:24 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WEnZp-0007bB-3n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:19:18 -0500 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:33744) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WEnZp-0007b5-0k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:19:13 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55988) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WEnZj-0008Hs-Hf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:19:12 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WEnZe-0007Zx-6J for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:19:07 -0500 Original-Received: from moderators.individual.net ([130.133.4.7]:43631) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WEnZd-0007ZW-WB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:19:02 -0500 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1] helo=mail.muc.de) by moderators.individual.net (Exim 4.82) for gnu-emacs-bug@moderators.isc.org with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1WEnZc-00499v-Tl>; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 23:19:01 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 61355 invoked by uid 8); 15 Feb 2014 22:18:57 -0000 Original-Path: not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.bug Original-Lines: 54 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: news.muc.de Original-X-Trace: colin.muc.de 1392502737 61353 193.149.48.2 (15 Feb 2014 22:18:57 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: news-admin@muc.de Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 22:18:57 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: tin/1.9.6-20101126 ("Burnside") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/8.4-RELEASE (amd64)) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:20:50 -0500 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:85642 Archived-At: Hi, Drew. Drew Adams wrote: >> This has been bothering me for a while when writing lisp code -- >> started happening roughly a few months ago. > Yup. >> I always hit C-j for newline, and a couple of months ago, this >> stopped indenting -- by default C-j runs control j runs the >> command electric-indent-just-newline when electric-indent-mode >> is on. >> >> The documentation for electric-mode indicates that indentation >> will be invoked when you type any of the chars in >> electric-indent-chars -- and that variable is set to a list >> containing ?\n which is ascii 10; yet, C-j invokes a command >> that explicitly only inserts a newline? (feeling very confused) > It is not yet reflected in NEWS or the manuals, but `C-j' and > `RET' have been effectively swapped: `RET' now indents and `C-j' > does not indent. No, it's a lot worse than that. What you say only applies when electric-indent-mode is active (which is currently is, by default). If you enable e-i-mode in a single buffer using electric-indent-local-mode, then that binding reversal will apply in all buffers. (That's assuming that function works, which I strongly suspect isn't the case.) If you then disable e-i-m, whether the bindings stay swapped depends on how you do the disabling. If you advise `newline-and-indent', the results will be unexpected and suboptimal when e-i-mode is enabled. > The new behavior was apparently adopted to make Emacs correspond > better with what newbie users expect, based on their experience > with other editors and IDEs. Sort of. I suspect the newbie users who don't like e-i-mode would also like to have these bindings reversed. Or maybe not. Who can say? > You are not alone in "feeling very confused". Hopefully, the > NEWS entry covering this, and perhaps the manuals, will explain > the best and simplest way to restore the previous, longstanding > behavior for those who might prefer it. Otherwise, you can > just retrain your fingers. ;-) I'm not confused about this issue. Just very, very unhappy. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).