From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Hadron Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Why emacs have not native language menu Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:00:29 +0200 Organization: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark Message-ID: References: <46A49912.9030203@luxdo.jp> <877ioqdoq9.fsf@voyager.informatimago.com> <87hcnuc6hz.fsf@voyager.informatimago.com> <878x95dhne.fsf@voyager.informatimago.com> <52sl7dopel.fsf@googlemail.com> <87vec84075.fsf@kobe.laptop> <5rejivs2w4.fsf@googlemail.com> <6E37A594-1ED3-448F-87C7-F3CC08BC73DF@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1185547718 19278 80.91.229.12 (27 Jul 2007 14:48:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:48:38 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 27 16:48:32 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IER79-0008GF-Mf for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:48:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IER79-0007E0-7I for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:48:23 -0400 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 57 Original-X-Trace: individual.net DVUxt7wm0zaLkTAKTKvzRweUdKbMG1Oz83j8o3Acm7yxPeAF/Y X-Orig-Path: news.individual.net!news Cancel-Lock: sha1:1jioH/pD+r+LLQqmKTr/FoqCOHg= sha1:DzdN6KHn41OkZoKIj1hDbTaf4sQ= X-Face: 2h#||Cd#d%F*NCm59[_6/{1a@jy%; |j>{D~4^gKg(^i%7j0IK?+,/GmW&:CD5fEKb_! Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAHlBMVEUBAQFeX18kItArui3a MTKtzavJybrGxcW4sbqgoJEo32BqAAAACXBIWXMAAABIAAAASABGyWs+AAAB30lEQVQ4y83UMW/T QBTA8f9ZuKRlyPNUBgRHpO58g5aBPQsrMpWoRJeSCZgIW1lQmRBhsTohMZCZKWKvxAco7VEJkFAl vxQBhTR+DIkTp8AMN1i6+/ne3bPvXcRfWvR/QPJsc/OJ/A7n7+5p/v3e1mlYTHOMXD/ILNRSAymw 6LZUwbVdXUQjB8XNKizmBFXEEOakAhtII1FUUGhNoebOdTqZgb5v7Oi3KWxpBj8TsMOXHASZQL4Q p2t0EQUGV1slOM34mgFa0IjpHpdwFpCUFIBm86QooQ7ueUaGQvSqi0oZCgyA+hVOHEh7DBukg9TA 0cUPVmJ0MkPJBqSGJyBWgoN49H1cRKBrZYJmyBrxLRUEiL26cSgVHV5v5qr0G0tnLiZJuSs0HDmc GCbDZTOzMXjxGNBHFL1c+R86eoxWVVwZ6iEAsrvzRoGAlQkqYfT2BSXBT0M5fOHy3UDxLgGIysyP IUJCBOwjuFo5wzxg4D3LIFaf7KoFUuBDYBt9S3sCP0A/Aisg+AWdgGUI7AGpitQr5+qz9C+lET1c oUd3KmCPbdgrQpjbj9zTmUN96KMlPDdw8zoDtu7t2upqL8w/OFUftr5dP/jiXpfj04qyT/c7j17k f6hByPNK55/eDL8Avva8YfF9tMEAAAAaelRYdEpQRUctQ29sb3JzcGFjZQAAeNozAgAAMwAzERZ+ YwAAACp6VFh0SlBFRy1TYW1wbGluZy1mYWN0b3JzAAB42jOqMNIxrDDUMawwBAARgwLpBsTKKAAA AABJRU5ErkJggg== Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:150539 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:46119 Archived-At: Jean-Christophe Helary writes: > On 27 juil. 07, at 04:12, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >>> From: Jean-Christophe Helary >>> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:02:33 +0900 >>> >>> >>> On 26 juil. 07, at 22:36, Hadron wrote: >>> >>>> Jesus, half the Emacs manual is hard enough to understand in >>>> English! :) >>> >>> This is basically why translating is difficult: the original >>> documentation is poorly written. >>> >>> And technical documentation is generally poorly written. (I'm just >>> trying a silly generalization to balance with other silly >>> generalizations...) >> >> I hope this particular silly generalization doesn't include the Emacs >> manual, because I think it's actually written quite well, as >> documentation goes. At least the attention it gets from the >> maintainers is significant. >> >> If you have examples of poor Emacs documentation to show, please do >> (and eventually submit them as bug report to bug-gnu-emacs mailing >> list). > > I sincerely think the emacs documentation (manual, elisp reference, > elist introduction) is verbose. I think the structure is not explicit > enough. I think they don't provide an easy access to information. > Basically such manuals could be at least half the size they are. But > this is obviously not something that can be fixed easily, and is also > a matter of taste more than anything else. The tutorial is much > better though. The "Learning Gnu Emacs" book is excellent. > > And I think that is the reason why we've seen so little translation of > the whole thing, even though emacs has been around for a while > now. The fact that there is no localization framework also helps: it > shows that emacs developers were specifically _not_ interested in > getting involved with reaching out to other linguistic communities. > It makes it difficult for translators to have their work advertised > properly (even though there are links to some translations), it makes > updating the translation a fantastic endeavor. > > > > Jean-Christophe Helary > > > --