From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#1305: Please disable the audible bell by default, to avoid discouraging newbies in crowded offices and elsewhere Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 09:54:02 -0500 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: Stefan Monnier , 1305@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1226070647 30030 80.91.229.12 (7 Nov 2008 15:10:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 15:10:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Jason Spiro , bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, 1305@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 07 16:11:50 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KySzo-0005qA-1e for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2008 16:11:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58295 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KySyg-0005fB-Kh for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2008 10:10:26 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KySyR-0005Qj-Ht for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2008 10:10:11 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KySyQ-0005Q0-Dh for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2008 10:10:10 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=56172 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KySyQ-0005Px-A8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2008 10:10:10 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:46152) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KySyP-0000XO-TE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2008 10:10:10 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id mA7FA6R3020645; Fri, 7 Nov 2008 07:10:06 -0800 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id mA7F04Rd017337; Fri, 7 Nov 2008 07:00:04 -0800 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:00:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 1305 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 1305-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B1305.122606965415821 (code B ref 1305); Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:00:03 +0000 Original-Received: (at 1305) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Nov 2008 14:54:14 +0000 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com (ironport2-out.teksavvy.com [206.248.154.182]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id mA7Es8YN015806 for <1305@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 7 Nov 2008 06:54:09 -0800 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AtcEAFflE0lMCqyo/2dsb2JhbACBdsgMg1aBEA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.33,564,1220241600"; d="scan'208";a="29522247" Original-Received: from 76-10-172-168.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([76.10.172.168]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 07 Nov 2008 09:54:03 -0500 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 066C67F94; Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:54:02 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 07 Nov 2008 12:32:53 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 10:10:10 -0500 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:22205 Archived-At: >> By default, Emacs makes an audible beep every time the user makes an >> error. It would be great if you could please change the default either: >> 1. To not make any audible or visible bell when the user makes an >> error. (This would be best.) > Many other GUI applications beep under some circumstances that need > user attention. Actually, in my experience it's very rare for "modern" GUI applications to beep. >> B. Most apps beep only when something very bad happens. But Emacs >> beeps even upon minor mistakes like scrolling past end of buffer, or >> pressing an unassigned key. It even beeps on non-mistakes like >> pressing C-g. The amount of beeping may make users uncomfortable. > Maybe we should simply revisit the places where we bitch-at-user, and > remove the beep from some of them. > But I don't see anything bad in beeping under extreme circumstances, > and don't support disabling it entirely. I agree on the principle to beep in extreme circumstances, but since these are rare (by definition of "extreme"), we should probably attack from the other side: use the visible-bell by default, and add a new function that does an actual beep (additionally to the visual bell) and then try and find the few places where it's warranted. >> You might say, "But if not for the beep, users won't notice errors". >> No. They will notice. Human eyes notice significant onscreen changes >> (perhaps 3 words or more) easily. > The problem is, without the beep, the screen sometimes does not change > at all. And that is BAD, from the HE point of view, at least IMO. That sounds like a bug to me. In which circumstances does the visible-bell fail to work? Stefan