From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 9ffb6ce 5/5: Quoting fixes in lisp/international and lisp/leim Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 11:39:53 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20150831061236.27796.57762@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <55E3F434.2060507@yandex.ru> <55E496DC.1030608@cs.ucla.edu> <877foas9jh.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1441131506 13411 80.91.229.3 (1 Sep 2015 18:18:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 18:18:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Paul Eggert , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov To: Oleh Krehel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 01 20:18:18 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWq8Q-0001Sf-DS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 20:18:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56693 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWq8Q-0004zZ-D3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 14:18:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38058) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWq8M-0004zT-P2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 14:18:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWq8J-0004ei-JU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 14:18:14 -0400 Original-Received: from x-132-204-253-139.xtpr.umontreal.ca ([132.204.253.139]:60736 helo=chicot.dit.umontreal.ca) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWq8J-0004dT-75 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 14:18:11 -0400 Original-Received: from ceviche.home (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id t81FdsjT007810; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 11:39:54 -0400 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id E249F6615C; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 11:39:53 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <877foas9jh.fsf@gmail.com> (Oleh Krehel's message of "Tue, 01 Sep 2015 12:45:06 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV5416=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9393 : core <5416> : inlines <3733> : streams <1498128> : uri <2030091> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 132.204.253.139 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:189409 Archived-At: > And to restate my opinion on the matter, since I haven't participated in > this discussion for a few months: Elisp code should be treated as > markup. Markup should be easy to view and enter: and since Emacs' main > language is English, the markup should be easy to enter in the most > common English keyboard layout and be easy to read in the most common > English locale. I generally agree. And to restate what I said earlier in more details, what I'd like to see fixed is: - `...' quoting is ugly. This should be fixed in "end user display" mostly, tho I don't mind if it's also fixed in the source code. - The `...' markup (and it is markup) is ambiguous. So I thought we were going to replace the `...' markup with =E2=80=98...=E2= =80=99 markup (which fixes both points at the same time if we assume that we keep sticking to ASCII quotes for the rest, tho at the cost of using non-ASCII markup). But if we start using curly quotes everywhere, then we're back with the ambiguity, so that's not a good solution. So maybe a better option is to refine the `...' markup to get rid of the ambiguity. E.g.: - `...' is only considered valid markup if ... doesn't contain any whitespace (or some such restriction: it should be a simple rule that still accepts most existing uses, especially those where we want to place a hyperlink). - All other occurrences of ` and ' are treated a standalone ASCII chars rather than as part of some markup. So `C-x C-f' is not valid markup any more (and won't be prettified). - Introduce some other markup for the more general case. Maybe this should be specific to docstrings, so it can be "somewhat verbose" and fairly rich/extensible. At that point we could imagine rendering docstrings in more refined way (e.g. using faces rather than curly quotes). Stefan