From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Friendly discussion about (package-initialize)
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2017 16:24:44 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <jwvzibb2uyd.fsf-monnier+gmane.emacs.devel@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: CADB4rJFDCCUy+BTV5UPg9LBed0+OptDTuRSGJYTEfwd3SaXn8A@mail.gmail.com
>> > The problem is that even if I don't use package.el, there may be
>> > some stuff left in ~/.emacs.d/elpa from previous times.
>> Then don't do that:
> I'm actually not sure what "that" is referring to here.
"That" refers to leaving stuff in ~/.emacs.d/elpa when you're not using
package.el.
> Agreed, but it doesn't have to be done in this way. We could
> accomplish the same thing simply by providing a template init-file,
> without any of the problems I've mentioned.
Maybe we should provide a template init file.
[ This file should be basically empty (tho could contain lots of
comments. ]
But auto-creating this file just because you start Emacs is also
a problem (similar to the auto-editing of this file you're complaining
about).
> Is there any particular reason why providing a template init-file
> would be a worse solution than modifying the init-file on the fly?
We also want to cater to old users of Emacs (who already have
their own ~/.emacs) who start to use package.el.
>> Inevitably there will be situations where this design goal will
>> clash with the end-user who wants to use something else and will
>> want to explicitly "disable" package.el.
> I'm fine with disabling package.el being an explicit step. Not with it
> being an ongoing battle (where package.el strikes back every time I
> accidentally use one of its functions without the proper advices
> defined).
Which functions do you use accidentally?
>> Do you mean that it would be worse, or that it would be better but
>> still not good enough?
> Better but still not good enough.
Great. Then let's try to do that. I suggest you M-x report-emacs-bug
and request this change (so it gets a tracking number, and its
dedicated discussion).
> do agree that this situation is uncommon; it just strikes me that the
> mechanism currently in use is rather fragile if it "breaks" in such a
> situation.
I wonder what you mean by "break".
>> Another thing we could consider is to drop the automatic call to
>> package-initialize in lisp/startup.el (again, based on the idea that
>> this has now been made unnecessary by package--ensure-init-file).
> I am strongly in support of this
Great. Then let's try to do that. I suggest you M-x report-emacs-bug
and request this change (so it gets a tracking number, and its
dedicated discussion).
> unless it means that we will be more reluctant to eventually remove
> `package--ensure-init-file'.
I don't see why it would have such an effect.
Stefan
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-08-09 20:24 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 45+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2017-08-07 0:37 Friendly discussion about (package-initialize) Radon Rosborough
2017-08-07 1:39 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-07 2:16 ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-07 2:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-07 4:12 ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-09 20:24 ` Stefan Monnier [this message]
2017-08-10 3:32 ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-10 4:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-10 4:39 ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-10 7:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-10 17:06 ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-10 19:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-10 19:31 ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-10 20:00 ` Mark Oteiza
2017-08-11 6:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-08-11 1:25 ` Nick Helm
2017-08-11 21:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-09 20:35 ` Interoperation between package managers (was: Friendly discussion about (package-initialize)) Stefan Monnier
2017-08-10 3:54 ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-10 21:34 ` Interoperation between package managers Stefan Monnier
2017-08-11 2:14 ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-11 22:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-12 17:54 ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-12 20:53 ` Jonas Bernoulli
2017-08-13 21:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-13 21:25 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-13 22:42 ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-13 23:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-14 0:29 ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-14 8:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-23 19:39 ` Nikolay Kudryavtsev
2017-08-23 20:58 ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-24 12:36 ` Nikolay Kudryavtsev
2017-08-24 20:11 ` Radon Rosborough
2017-08-25 14:31 ` Nikolay Kudryavtsev
2017-08-24 15:04 ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-08-24 15:46 ` Nikolay Kudryavtsev
2017-08-07 3:20 ` Friendly discussion about (package-initialize) Noam Postavsky
2017-08-07 4:14 ` Mark Oteiza
2017-08-08 0:47 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-10 20:15 ` Mark Oteiza
2017-08-10 21:29 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-08-11 1:14 ` Mark Oteiza
2017-08-11 8:03 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2017-08-07 6:52 ` Colin Baxter
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