company.el status?

company.el status?

[Dmitry Gutov]

Hi all,

What is the status of company-mode here? As far as I can see, no one
maintains it, and the elpa branch and the git repository have both
diverged from each other: elpa has added company-capf and some cosmetic
changes, git repository has some of the same cosmetic changes and also
commits that haven't made their way into elpa:

https://github.com/nschum/company/commits/master

I sent some messages to bugs@nschum.de with feedback and a patch a few
months ago, and haven't heard back since.

Is copyright assignment still in effect, or has Nikolaj retracted it? In
the former case, it shouldn't be too hard for me to merge everything
valuable from git to elpa.

Now, I have two patches of my own, and there might be more coming
(https://github.com/dgutov/company/commits/master).

Do I have to explicitly post them here for review, or can I go ahead and
install them?

Are there actual users of company-mode on this mailing list who would
raise an alarm if something breaks for them?

--Dmitry

Re: company.el status?

[Thierry Volpiatto]

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> Hi all,
>
> What is the status of company-mode here? As far as I can see, no one
> maintains it, and the elpa branch and the git repository have both
> diverged from each other: elpa has added company-capf and some cosmetic
> changes, git repository has some of the same cosmetic changes and also
> commits that haven't made their way into elpa:
>
> https://github.com/nschum/company/commits/master

Same for eldoc-eval.el and ioccur.el they are maintained now on github:

https://github.com/thierryvolpiatto/eldoc-eval.git
https://github.com/thierryvolpiatto/ioccur.git

And eldoc-eval is broken for 24.3+ on ELPA (Fixed on github).

> I sent some messages to bugs@nschum.de with feedback and a patch a few
> months ago, and haven't heard back since.
>
> Is copyright assignment still in effect, or has Nikolaj retracted it? In
> the former case, it shouldn't be too hard for me to merge everything
> valuable from git to elpa.
>
> Now, I have two patches of my own, and there might be more coming
> (https://github.com/dgutov/company/commits/master).
>
> Do I have to explicitly post them here for review, or can I go ahead and
> install them?
>
> Are there actual users of company-mode on this mailing list who would
> raise an alarm if something breaks for them?
>
> --Dmitry
>
>

-- 
Thierry
Get my Gnupg key:
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997 

Re: company.el status?

[Nikolaj Schumacher]

On 2013-03-07 18:37, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> What is the status of company-mode here? As far as I can see, no one
> maintains it, and the elpa branch and the git repository have both
> diverged from each other
>
> [...]
>
> I sent some messages to bugs@nschum.de with feedback and a patch a few
> months ago, and haven't heard back since.
Hello Dmitry,

sorry, I must have been too busy and then forgotten about them eventually.

The sad truth is, I can't seem to find the time to take care of 
company-mode properly, especially since I currently don't get to use 
Emacs much at all.
> Is copyright assignment still in effect, or has Nikolaj retracted it? In
> the former case, it shouldn't be too hard for me to merge everything
> valuable from git to elpa.
No, of course it's still in effect.
> Now, I have two patches of my own, and there might be more coming
> (https://github.com/dgutov/company/commits/master).
If you have the time and interest in working on it, you have my blessing 
to take over maintainership and make any changes you deem fit.


kind regards,
Nikolaj Schumacher

Re: company.el status?

[Dmitry Gutov]

Hi Nikolaj,

Nikolaj Schumacher <me@nschum.de> writes:
> The sad truth is, I can't seem to find the time to take care of company-mode
> properly, especially since I currently don't get to use Emacs much at
> all.

Yeah, that's what I figured.

>> Now, I have two patches of my own, and there might be more coming
>> (https://github.com/dgutov/company/commits/master).
> If you have the time and interest in working on it, you have my blessing to take
> over maintainership and make any changes you deem fit.

Thank you, I'll do that.

Since you replied now, could you update the homepage?

http://nschum.de/src/emacs/company-mode/ is number 2 hit in Google, and
it's severely outdated:

1) The screencast link is broken.
2) The configuration code block is (mostly?) unnecessary, as long as the
user installs from ELPA. And those who don't, usually know all about
`add-to-list', `autoload' and `require'. Maybe at least mention that
it's not necessary for ELPA installation.
3) The ELPA link leads to Tromey's archive, which has been deprecated
for a while. It should go to http://elpa.gnu.org/ instead.
4) The download archive links are bound to become outdated, unless
you're willing to give me access to the hosting (which I guess you're
not, as this is a personal site). So I suggest linking to
http://elpa.gnu.org/packages/company.html instead, it should always have
an up-to-date download link.
5) Feedback: I think you'd prefer if people sent bug reports to me
directly or to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, instead of yourself.
Speaking of reporting bugs, I generally prefer to use GitHub Issues, but
it seems to me there are not many current users, so any of the two
options above should be sufficient. Up to you.
6) EmacsWiki link should probably be removed or moved to another
section: I visit it very rarely, so users should not expect to receive
any developer support here.

Alternatively, you can just make it redirect to
http://elpa.gnu.org/packages/company.html

Cheers,
Dmitry

Re: company.el status?

[Dmitry Gutov]

Hi Thierry,

Thierry Volpiatto <thierry.volpiatto@gmail.com> writes:
> Same for eldoc-eval.el and ioccur.el they are maintained now on github:
>
> https://github.com/thierryvolpiatto/eldoc-eval.git
> https://github.com/thierryvolpiatto/ioccur.git

Why is that? If that's just because of Bazaar, I can sympathize, but
there was an announcement on emacs-devel recently that the elpa branch
will migrate to Git, or something like that.

> And eldoc-eval is broken for 24.3+ on ELPA (Fixed on github).

I think you should either merge the changes, or remove the package, so
that the users don't encounter the problem.

If you don't have the access, I can do either for you.

--Dmitry

Re: company.el status?

[Thierry Volpiatto]

Hi Dmitry,

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> Hi Thierry,
>
> Thierry Volpiatto <thierry.volpiatto@gmail.com> writes:
>> Same for eldoc-eval.el and ioccur.el they are maintained now on github:
>>
>> https://github.com/thierryvolpiatto/eldoc-eval.git
>> https://github.com/thierryvolpiatto/ioccur.git
>
> Why is that? If that's just because of Bazaar, I can sympathize, but
> there was an announcement on emacs-devel recently that the elpa branch
> will migrate to Git, or something like that.

Hmm, not yet I presume.

>> And eldoc-eval is broken for 24.3+ on ELPA (Fixed on github).
>
> I think you should either merge the changes, or remove the package, so
> that the users don't encounter the problem.

I don't use bzr anymore.

> If you don't have the access, I can do either for you.

If you want yes go ahead, there is only eldoc-eval to merge.

Thanks.

-- 
Thierry
Get my Gnupg key:
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997 

Re: company.el status?

[Nikolaj Schumacher]

On 2013-03-07 21:43, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> Since you replied now, could you update the homepage?
I think it would be good to create a Github project/readme page and 
redirect to that.
I'll either transfer the Github repo to you or set up an organization 
where you have full access.
I think we can keep the organizational stuff off the devel list, though.

Re: company.el status?

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 08.03.2013 15:17, Nikolaj Schumacher wrote:
> On 2013-03-07 21:43, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
>> Since you replied now, could you update the homepage?
> I think it would be good to create a Github project/readme page and
> redirect to that.
> I'll either transfer the Github repo to you or set up an organization
> where you have full access.
> I think we can keep the organizational stuff off the devel list, though.

Sounds good (see reply off list).

Re: company.el status?

[Richard Stallman]

I am told that Github has features that don't work unless
you run nonfree Javascript.  It seems like an important issue,
though I don't have details.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
  Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call

Re: company.el status?

[Dmitry Gutov]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> I am told that Github has features that don't work unless
> you run nonfree Javascript.

That's an accurate assertion. The core features all seem to work,
though, even when JavaScript is disabled.

Re: company.el status?

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 09.03.2013 3:58, chad wrote:
>
> On 08 Mar 2013, at 15:50, Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> wrote:
>
>> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>>> I am told that Github has features that don't work unless
>>> you run nonfree Javascript.
>>
>> That's an accurate assertion. The core features all seem to work,
>> though, even when JavaScript is disabled.
>
> Have you tried it with javascript disabled while using your account
> for various non-public features, like updating tickets, making pull
> requests, or the like?  It's possible that the only current feature
> broken by disabling javascript is new account creation.

I can create, comment on and close an issue with disabled JavaScript 
(but not edit the description after it's been created).

Pull requests are fairly broken without JavaScript, but I'm inclined to 
call it a non-essential feature, since you can convey all the relevant 
information in a plain issue.

Forking also looks broken, though. That's a bit of a bummer.

Re: company.el status?

[Stefan Monnier]

> https://github.com/thierryvolpiatto/eldoc-eval.git
> https://github.com/thierryvolpiatto/ioccur.git

> And eldoc-eval is broken for 24.3+ on ELPA (Fixed on github).

There's no "ELPA" maintainer.  So if the package's maintainer doesn't
want to maintain the ELPA version, that's what we get.
IOW, please keep the ELPA branch of your packages up-to-date.
Normally, you should be able to "bzr merge" from your github branch
(using the "bzr-git" plugin).


        Stefan

Re: company.el status?

[Stefan Monnier]

>> Since you replied now, could you update the homepage?
> I think it would be good to create a Github project/readme page and redirect
> to that.

Much better would be to use the ELPA branch as the official upstream.


        Stefan

Re: company.el status?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 03:50:53 +0400
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Nikolaj Schumacher <me@nschum.de>
> 
> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > I am told that Github has features that don't work unless
> > you run nonfree Javascript.
> 
> That's an accurate assertion. The core features all seem to work,
> though, even when JavaScript is disabled.

Why do we need Github?

Re: company.el status?

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 09.03.2013 7:11, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>> Since you replied now, could you update the homepage?
>> I think it would be good to create a Github project/readme page and redirect
>> to that.
>
> Much better would be to use the ELPA branch as the official upstream.

Leaving aside other details, I'd be more comfortable using ELPA for 
development if it were using Git (this is coming, I hear), and if it 
didn't lump all packages together in one repository.
The current situation only seems useful when someone is making sweeping 
changes across packages, like updating copyright dates. This action 
seems to be relatively rare, and could be automated either way.

On 09.03.2013 12:19, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
 > Why do we need Github?

The decision is up to Nikolaj, but for one thing, I expect strong 
correlation between people who prefer using completion mechanism with 
graphical interface and ones who would prefer a bug tracker with an 
actual user interface versus email-driven austerity that is Debbugs.

Re: company.el status?

[Thierry Volpiatto]

Hi Stefan,

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> https://github.com/thierryvolpiatto/eldoc-eval.git
>> https://github.com/thierryvolpiatto/ioccur.git
>
>> And eldoc-eval is broken for 24.3+ on ELPA (Fixed on github).
>
> There's no "ELPA" maintainer.  So if the package's maintainer doesn't
> want to maintain the ELPA version, that's what we get.
> IOW, please keep the ELPA branch of your packages up-to-date.
> Normally, you should be able to "bzr merge" from your github branch
> (using the "bzr-git" plugin).

Sorry but I never reach this step: (like always)

bzr branch bzr+ssh://thierryvolpiatto@bzr.savannah.gnu.org/emacs/elpa                             
bzr: ERROR: exceptions.AssertionError: ('not present: %r', StaticTuple('', '', 'TREE_ROOT'))

It is working for you and others because you already have a repo, but
you continue to work in this repo which is IMO corrupted, and this is
not helping.

Looking forward you switch to a decent VCS.

Thanks.

-- 
Thierry
Get my Gnupg key:
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997 

Re: company.el status?

[Xue Fuqiao]

On Sat, 09 Mar 2013 13:23:23 +0100
Thierry Volpiatto <thierry.volpiatto@gmail.com> wrote:

> Looking forward you switch to a decent VCS.

Me, too.  There are too many bugs and unnecessary features in Bazaar,
I think.

-- 
Best regards, Xue Fuqiao.
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao

Re: company.el status?

[Nikolaj Schumacher]

On 2013-03-09 11:05, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> On 09.03.2013 7:11, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> Much better would be to use the ELPA branch as the official upstream.
> Leaving aside other details, I'd be more comfortable using ELPA for 
> development if it were using Git (this is coming, I hear), and if it 
> didn't lump all packages together in one repository.
> The current situation only seems useful when someone is making 
> sweeping changes across packages, like updating copyright dates. This 
> action seems to be relatively rare, and could be automated either way.
As I indicated, I haven't kept up with development and therefore know 
very little about the current ELPA process.
It always seemed sensible to me to have a (public) development 
repository and then push stable releases upstream.
 From what Dmitry says, it doesn't sound like ELPA works as an easily 
findable and forkable development repository.
> On 09.03.2013 12:19, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Why do we need Github?
I've used it as such a development repository (to mirror my private 
development)
Also, I suppose there should be some kind of project homepage.

I see a certain need for both these things, not for GitHub per se.
> The decision is up to Nikolaj, but for one thing, I expect strong 
> correlation between people who prefer using completion mechanism with 
> graphical interface and ones who would prefer a bug tracker with an 
> actual user interface versus email-driven austerity that is Debbugs.
Actually, I'd like to leave this to you, Dmitry.
Since I'm not going to do much of the development work, I certainly 
don't want to dictate the process. I'll support whatever works best for you.


kind regards,
Nikolaj Schumacher

Re: company.el status?

[Stefan Monnier]

> bzr branch bzr+ssh://thierryvolpiatto@bzr.savannah.gnu.org/emacs/elpa                             
> bzr: ERROR: exceptions.AssertionError: ('not present: %r', StaticTuple('', '', 'TREE_ROOT'))

Try to search for "elpa bzr error" and you might bump into:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/937101 which includes a workaround.
[ This has been mentioned on this list a few times as well, so a search
within the mailing-list might also find it.  ]


        Stefan

Re: company.el status?

[Thierry Volpiatto]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> Try to search for "elpa bzr error" and you might bump into:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/937101 which includes a
> workaround.

Thanks for the workaround, but last time I tried a workaround for this
bad things happen.
Thus, your initial bug report was in February 2012, we are now in March
2013 and nothing have been done on the bzr side...

-- 
Thierry
Get my Gnupg key:
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997 

Re: company.el status?

[Stefan Monnier]

>> Try to search for "elpa bzr error" and you might bump into:
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/937101 which includes a
>> workaround.
> Thanks for the workaround, but last time I tried a workaround for this
> bad things happen.

I do remember giving wrong indications for a workaround once, but the
workaround on that site has never failed AFAIK.


        Stefan

Re: company.el status?

[Richard Stallman]

Would you, or someone else here, like to study the situation with
Github and Javascript and make a full report on the flaws?

Whoever wants to take charge this, please tell me before you start.
If nobody here wants to do it, I will look for someone elsewhere.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
  Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call

Re: company.el status?

[Tim Cross]

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My question as well. While I won't lose any sleep should we give up on bzr
and move to git, I am very concerned regarding further fracturing of the
emacs ecosystem if that means using a platform which is using non-free
tools. Git != GitHub. Lets have all official emacs packages use git, but on
gnu.org. If we start moving things out to various other locations, before
long, we will have forks and different versions all over the place, leaving
an envrionment where only the determined and experienced emacser has any
hope - all new users will run a mile.




On 9 March 2013 19:19, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> > From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> > Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 03:50:53 +0400
> > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Nikolaj Schumacher <me@nschum.de>
> >
> > Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
> >
> > > I am told that Github has features that don't work unless
> > > you run nonfree Javascript.
> >
> > That's an accurate assertion. The core features all seem to work,
> > though, even when JavaScript is disabled.
>
> Why do we need Github?
>
>


-- 
Tim Cross

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1761 bytes --]

Re: company.el status?

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 27.03.2013 6:56, Tim Cross wrote:
> My question as well. While I won't lose any sleep should we give up on
> bzr and move to git, I am very concerned regarding further fracturing of
> the emacs ecosystem if that means using a platform which is using
> non-free tools. Git != GitHub.

I believe I presented some reasons why a project might want to use 
GitHub over hosting solely at gnu.org.

 > Lets have all official emacs packages use
> git, but on gnu.org <http://gnu.org>. If we start moving things out to
> various other locations, before long, we will have forks and different

Forks are good, the power to create one is one of the main freedoms 
provided by free software licenses.
If a project has people taking its code and running in different 
directions, it means the project is in demand, and it increases the 
probability that those people either contribute back, or maybe create 
something newer and more exciting.

> versions all over the place, leaving an envrionment where only the
> determined and experienced emacser has any hope - all new users will run
> a mile.

As long as GNU ELPA is easy to contribute to and the project maintainer 
is willing, there shouldn't be any problems.

Now, if you're actually using the package, how about contributing some 
code? I'm currently the sole developer, and I'm not in any danger of 
splitting into several people anytime soon.

--Dmitry

Re: company.el status?

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Tim Cross writes:

 > I am very concerned regarding further fracturing of the emacs
 > ecosystem if that means using a platform which is using non-free
 > tools.

This is a non-issue.  Please ignore suggestions that official packages
will have a primary host or distribution point other than on gnu.org.
It just won't happen.

 > If we start moving things out to various other locations,

Individual developers will of course do so -- after all, that's the
whole point of DVCS -- and perhaps whole packages will move to GitHub
etc.  Nothing new there, and nothing horribly wrong[1] with that --
that's the whole point of free software, that users (including
upstream and downstream developers) be free to do what works for them
with their code bases.  But the official Emacs versions will be
distributed from GNU, and their repositories will be hosted at
gnu.org.  Even the die-hard GitHub fans will come to gnu.org for
official versions, and by the nature of DVCS they won't be much
inconvenienced, either.

The only thing at issue here is choice of DVCS to host the main Emacs
repos at Savannah.

Footnotes: 
[1]  Of course it's not good that people are attracted to services
that aren't free.  That attraction is not going to disappear, but even
Richard doesn't ostracize developers who use non-free services or even
whole non-free platforms.  He just wishes they were as free as he is,
and advises them so.