Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[wilnerthomas--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Had a go at changing the colour of the line to green, but it is not getting changed.

Is there any way to use a bigger width for the indicator line because I find it to be too thin.

Finally, using  `add-hook'  with  `lisp-interaction-mode-hook'  did not display the indicator.

(defun galaxy-colum ()
  "TODO"

  (let ( (global-colum nil) )

    (if (eq global-colum nil)

(progn
  (add-hook 'prog-mode-hook
    #'display-fill-column-indicator-mode)
  (add-hook 'org-mode-hook
    #'display-fill-column-indicator-mode)
  (add-hook 'text-mode-hook
    #'display-fill-column-indicator-mode)
  (add-hook 'lisp-interaction-mode-hook
    #'display-fill-column-indicator-mode))

      (global-display-fill-column-indicator-mode)) )

  (set-face-foreground 'fill-column-indicator "green"))

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 03:14:08 +0200 (CEST)
> From: wilnerthomas--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
> 
> Had a go at changing the colour of the line to green, but it is not getting changed.

Works for me.  If you are not proficient enough with doing this from
Lisp, try "M-x customize-face RET".

> Is there any way to use a bigger width for the indicator line because I find it to be too thin.

You need to find a character that looks like a vertical line, but is
wider.  Or maybe try using 'bold' in the fill-column-indicator face
attributes.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Sunday, August 21st, 2022 at 5:54 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 03:14:08 +0200 (CEST)
> > From: wilnerthomas--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> > 
> > Had a go at changing the colour of the line to green, but it is not getting changed.
> 
> Works for me. If you are not proficient enough with doing this from
> Lisp, try "M-x customize-face RET".
> 
> > Is there any way to use a bigger width for the indicator line because I find it to be too thin.
> 
> You need to find a character that looks like a vertical line, but is
> wider. Or maybe try using 'bold' in the fill-column-indicator face
> attributes.

Could you make it easier to use a wider character, rather than figuring
a character that looks like a vertical line, but is wider.

Currently doing so is complicated.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 03:15:09 +0000
> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> > > Is there any way to use a bigger width for the indicator line because I find it to be too thin.
> > 
> > You need to find a character that looks like a vertical line, but is
> > wider. Or maybe try using 'bold' in the fill-column-indicator face
> > attributes.
> 
> Could you make it easier to use a wider character, rather than figuring
> a character that looks like a vertical line, but is wider.

Sorry, I don't understand the question (if it is a question).

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022 at 11:23 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:


> > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 03:15:09 +0000
> > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me
> > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> > 
> > > > Is there any way to use a bigger width for the indicator line because I find it to be too thin.
> > > 
> > > You need to find a character that looks like a vertical line, but is
> > > wider. Or maybe try using 'bold' in the fill-column-indicator face
> > > attributes.
> > 
> > Could you make it easier to use a wider character, rather than figuring
> > a character that looks like a vertical line, but is wider.
> 
> 
> Sorry, I don't understand the question (if it is a question).

Finding the indicator too thin, the original question asked if there exists an
already defined way to use a wider indicator.  

You asked me to find a wider character that looks like a vertical line.  But it is
complicated to figure out a way to do it.  So the question is now about possibility
of having different thicknesses (sensible of course, e.g. thin, thick, wide) without 
users having to find a solution and get it to work.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 11:37:23 +0000
> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> > > > You need to find a character that looks like a vertical line, but is
> > > > wider. Or maybe try using 'bold' in the fill-column-indicator face
> > > > attributes.
> > > 
> > > Could you make it easier to use a wider character, rather than figuring
> > > a character that looks like a vertical line, but is wider.
> > 
> > 
> > Sorry, I don't understand the question (if it is a question).
> 
> Finding the indicator too thin, the original question asked if there exists an
> already defined way to use a wider indicator.  
> 
> You asked me to find a wider character that looks like a vertical line.  But it is
> complicated to figure out a way to do it.  So the question is now about possibility
> of having different thicknesses (sensible of course, e.g. thin, thick, wide) without 
> users having to find a solution and get it to work.

Someone will still have to find such characters.  And the best
candidate to do it is a person who is interested in the feature,
because they are the best motivated ones.

Once such characters are found, adding them to the alternatives
available for customization is very easy.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022 at 12:28 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:


> > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 11:37:23 +0000
> > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me
> > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> > 
> > > > > You need to find a character that looks like a vertical line, but is
> > > > > wider. Or maybe try using 'bold' in the fill-column-indicator face
> > > > > attributes.
> > > > 
> > > > Could you make it easier to use a wider character, rather than figuring
> > > > a character that looks like a vertical line, but is wider.
> > > 
> > > Sorry, I don't understand the question (if it is a question).
> > 
> > Finding the indicator too thin, the original question asked if there exists an
> > already defined way to use a wider indicator.
> > 
> > You asked me to find a wider character that looks like a vertical line. But it is
> > complicated to figure out a way to do it. So the question is now about possibility
> > of having different thicknesses (sensible of course, e.g. thin, thick, wide) without
> > users having to find a solution and get it to work.
> 
> 
> Someone will still have to find such characters. And the best
> candidate to do it is a person who is interested in the feature,
> because they are the best motivated ones.

I am having difficulty finding the characters you are talking about.  Does your thin
line use the characters you describe?  What hype of characters are they and where do
I find them?
 
> Once such characters are found, adding them to the alternatives
> available for customization is very easy.

If you say so.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 12:36:59 +0000
> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> > Someone will still have to find such characters. And the best
> > candidate to do it is a person who is interested in the feature,
> > because they are the best motivated ones.
> 
> I am having difficulty finding the characters you are talking about.  Does your thin
> line use the characters you describe?  What hype of characters are they and where do
> I find them?

See the documentation of the corresponding variable, in this case
display-fill-column-indicator-character.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[wilnerthomas--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Aug 23, 2022, 12:47 by eliz@gnu.org:

>> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 12:36:59 +0000
>> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
>> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
>>
>> > Someone will still have to find such characters. And the best
>> > candidate to do it is a person who is interested in the feature,
>> > because they are the best motivated ones.
>>
>> I am having difficulty finding the characters you are talking about.  Does your thin
>> line use the characters you describe?  What hype of characters are they and where do
>> I find them?
>>
>
> See the documentation of the corresponding variable, in this case
> display-fill-column-indicator-character.
>

There is U+2503

How can I progress from here?

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 15:00:04 +0200 (CEST)
> From: wilnerthomas@tutanota.com
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> Aug 23, 2022, 12:47 by eliz@gnu.org:
> 
> >> I am having difficulty finding the characters you are talking about.  Does your thin
> >> line use the characters you describe?  What hype of characters are they and where do
> >> I find them?
> >>
> >
> > See the documentation of the corresponding variable, in this case
> > display-fill-column-indicator-character.
> >
> 
> There is U+2503
> 
> How can I progress from here?

The doc string also mentions one alternative.

For others, try

  C-x 8 RET *VERTICAL TAB

and then scroll through the characters with TAB.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

>> Could you make it easier to use a wider character, rather than figuring
>> a character that looks like a vertical line, but is wider.
>
> Sorry, I don't understand the question (if it is a question).

I think he's asking if there's a way to change the thickness by
increasing the size of the character but only horizontally (and
presumably without increasing the surrounding whitespace to the same
extent).

IIRC there (used to be?) a way to specify a resize matrix as part of
a font specification, which I used at some point in `xterm` in order to
replace my trusty bitmap misc-fixed font with a vectorized font (and
thus gain anti-aliasing) while keeping the exact same size of the
character cells.  That would be sufficient to resize horizontally, but
it would also resize the surrounding whitespace, so it's probably
not sufficient.


        Stefan

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 16:28:28 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> 
> For others, try
> 
>   C-x 8 RET *VERTICAL TAB

To clarify: RET and TAB are keys that you press, but *VERTICAL is
literal text you need to type (before pressing TAB for the first
time).

RE: [External] : Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Drew Adams]

Dunno whether it helps, but there is also library `fill-column-indicator.el' on Emacs Wiki:

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/FillColumnIndicator

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/fill-column-indicator.el

Re: [External] : Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> CC: "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 14:30:59 +0000
> 
> Dunno whether it helps, but there is also library `fill-column-indicator.el' on Emacs Wiki:
> 
> https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/FillColumnIndicator
> 
> https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/fill-column-indicator.el

It has known "issues", and is much slower than the built-in mode, so I
won't recommend that to anyone nowadays.  The numerous problems and
incompatibilities of that mode and its ilk were the main reason why we
developed a built-in mode, which is implemented in the display engine
in an optimal way, instead of trying to force the display from Lisp to
do stuff it wasn't supposed to do.

RE: [External] : Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Drew Adams]

> > Dunno whether it helps, but there is also library `fill-column-
> > indicator.el' on Emacs Wiki:
> 
> It has known "issues", and is much slower than the built-in mode, so I
> won't recommend that to anyone nowadays.  The numerous problems and
> incompatibilities of that mode and its ilk were the main reason why we
> developed a built-in mode, which is implemented in the display engine
> in an optimal way, instead of trying to force the display from Lisp to
> do stuff it wasn't supposed to do.

Good to know; thx.

Someone (TM) might want to update the wiki
page with such info.  (Anyone can do so.)

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/FillColumnIndicator

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022 at 2:02 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:


> > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 16:28:28 +0300
> > From: Eli Zaretskii eliz@gnu.org
> > 
> > For others, try
> > 
> > C-x 8 RET *VERTICAL TAB
> 
> 
> To clarify: RET and TAB are keys that you press, but *VERTICAL is
> literal text you need to type (before pressing TAB for the first
> time).

Use *VE gives Lisp error: (error "Invalid character")

I would then have to use that name?  There are not many variations to choose from.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Emanuel Berg]

uzibalqa wrote:

>>> For others, try
>>> 
>>> C-x 8 RET *VERTICAL TAB
>> 
>> To clarify: RET and TAB are keys that you press, but
>> *VERTICAL is literal text you need to type (before pressing
>> TAB for the first time).
>
> Use *VE gives Lisp error: (error "Invalid character")
>
> I would then have to use that name?

That error message means whatever you inputted there is no
such char. Try again with your tongue in the right position ...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022 at 11:42 PM, Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> wrote:


> uzibalqa wrote:
> 
> > > > For others, try
> > > > 
> > > > C-x 8 RET *VERTICAL TAB
> > > 
> > > To clarify: RET and TAB are keys that you press, but
> > > *VERTICAL is literal text you need to type (before pressing
> > > TAB for the first time).
> > 
> > Use *VE gives Lisp error: (error "Invalid character")
> > 
> > I would then have to use that name?
> 
> 
> That error message means whatever you inputted there is no
> such char. Try again with your tongue in the right position ...

As you do in the swamp?
 
> --
> underground experts united
> https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Emanuel Berg]

uzibalqa wrote:

>> That error message means whatever you inputted there is no
>> such char. Try again with your tongue in the right
>> position ...
>
> As you do in the swamp?

It's all an orchestra of strings
doing unbelievable things

https://dataswamp.org/~incal/vidz/zev-2.webm

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, August 23rd, 2022 at 2:02 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:


> > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 16:28:28 +0300
> > From: Eli Zaretskii eliz@gnu.org
> > 
> > For others, try
> > 
> > C-x 8 RET *VERTICAL TAB
> 
> 
> To clarify: RET and TAB are keys that you press, but *VERTICAL is
> literal text you need to type (before pressing TAB for the first
> time).

You are giving me a very hard time with this.  The problem is maximised
when one has a dark background.  The thinness together with the colour
makes evident how the person who coded completely disregarded any 
accessibility measures.  Is this torture really necessary!
 

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[wilnerthomas--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Aug 23, 2022, 23:56 by incal@dataswamp.org:

> uzibalqa wrote:
>
>>> That error message means whatever you inputted there is no
>>> such char. Try again with your tongue in the right
>>> position ...
>>>
>>
>> As you do in the swamp?
>>
>
> It's all an orchestra of strings
> doing unbelievable things
>
> https://dataswamp.org/~incal/vidz/zev-2.webm
>
What substance are you taking?

Anyway, have done, but to no avail

(setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\u2503)

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[John Yates]

Actually, I am pretty sure that it is
*  U+2502: Box Drawing Light Vertical

Other unicode options might include:
* U+2551: Box Drawing Double Vertical
* U+2588: Full Block
* U+258C: Left Half Block
* U+2590: Right Half Block
* U+2591: Light Shade
* U+2592: Medium Shade
* U+2593: Dark Shade

Disclaimer: I have not tried any of these.
I merely skimmed a Character Map app.

/john

On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 9:00 AM wilnerthomas--- via Users list for the GNU
Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> wrote:

> Aug 23, 2022, 12:47 by eliz@gnu.org:
>
> >> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 12:36:59 +0000
> >> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
> >> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> >>
> >> > Someone will still have to find such characters. And the best
> >> > candidate to do it is a person who is interested in the feature,
> >> > because they are the best motivated ones.
> >>
> >> I am having difficulty finding the characters you are talking about.
> Does your thin
> >> line use the characters you describe?  What hype of characters are they
> and where do
> >> I find them?
> >>
> >
> > See the documentation of the corresponding variable, in this case
> > display-fill-column-indicator-character.
> >
>
> There is U+2503
>
> How can I progress from here?
>
>
>

-- 
John Yates
505 Tremont St, #803
Boston, MA 02116

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[uzibalqa]

Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

------- Original Message -------
On Wednesday, August 24th, 2022 at 12:52 AM, John Yates <john@yates-sheets.org> wrote:


> Actually, I am pretty sure that it is
> * U+2502: Box Drawing Light Vertical
> 
> Other unicode options might include:
> * U+2551: Box Drawing Double Vertical
> * U+2588: Full Block
> * U+258C: Left Half Block
> * U+2590: Right Half Block
> * U+2591: Light Shade
> * U+2592: Medium Shade
> * U+2593: Dark Shade
> 
> Disclaimer: I have not tried any of these.
> I merely skimmed a Character Map app.
> 
> /john

Have done the following, and getting

Lisp error: (error "Non-hex character used for Unicode escape: ) (41)")

(setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\U2502) 
(setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\U+2502)

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Wednesday, August 24th, 2022 at 12:52 AM, John Yates <john@yates-sheets.org> wrote:


> Actually, I am pretty sure that it is
> * U+2502: Box Drawing Light Vertical
> 
> Other unicode options might include:
> * U+2551: Box Drawing Double Vertical
> * U+2588: Full Block
> * U+258C: Left Half Block
> * U+2590: Right Half Block
> * U+2591: Light Shade
> * U+2592: Medium Shade
> * U+2593: Dark Shade
> 
> Disclaimer: I have not tried any of these.
> I merely skimmed a Character Map app.
> 
> /john

U+2502 is too thin and require a wider line especially on a dark background.
Tried to convince Eli to change it, but seems too obstinate to recognise the
problem, expecting the blind to customise it.  Wrong at many levels.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Emanuel Berg]

wilnerthomas--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor wrote:

>>> As you do in the swamp?
>>
>> It's all an orchestra of strings
>> doing unbelievable things
>>
>> https://dataswamp.org/~incal/vidz/zev-2.webm
>
> What substance are you taking?

Nothing you can handle anyway. Stick to Elisp. Err ...

> Anyway, have done, but to no avail
>
> (setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\u2503)

This works for me:

  (setq display-fill-column-indicator t)
  (setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\u2503)

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 23:36:09 +0000
> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> > > For others, try
> > > 
> > > C-x 8 RET *VERTICAL TAB
> > 
> > 
> > To clarify: RET and TAB are keys that you press, but *VERTICAL is
> > literal text you need to type (before pressing TAB for the first
> > time).
> 
> Use *VE gives Lisp error: (error "Invalid character")

It doesn't here.  Are you sure you didn't make some typing mistake?
What version of Emacs is that?

> I would then have to use that name?  There are not many variations to choose from.

Yes, there are many characters that could potentially fit.  You need
to use the character you like or want to try in the customization.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 01:08:53 +0000
> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
> Cc: wilnerthomas@tutanota.com, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> Tried to convince Eli to change it, but seems too obstinate to recognise the
> problem

Thanks a lot!  That's a powerful motivator to help you in the future!

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 01:05:54 +0000
> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
> Cc: wilnerthomas@tutanota.com, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> Have done the following, and getting
> 
> Lisp error: (error "Non-hex character used for Unicode escape: ) (41)")
> 
> (setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\U2502) 
> (setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\U+2502)

Use "M-x customize-variable" if you are not proficient enough in Emacs
Lisp.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Emanuel Berg]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>>>> For others, try
>>>> 
>>>> C-x 8 RET *VERTICAL TAB
>>> 
>>> To clarify: RET and TAB are keys that you press, but
>>> *VERTICAL is literal text you need to type (before
>>> pressing TAB for the first time).
>> 
>> Use *VE gives Lisp error: (error "Invalid character")
>
> It doesn't here. Are you sure you didn't make some
> typing mistake?

Positive.

> What version of Emacs is that?

GNU Emacs 29.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, cairo version 1.16.0)
of 2022-08-12 [commit a2cf5646d4cb3a2444ba53eb5452509f3ad9c6f7]

https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/meta.el

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Emanuel Berg]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> Tried to convince Eli to change it, but seems too obstinate
>> to recognise the problem
>
> Thanks a lot! That's a powerful motivator to help you in
> the future!

Now I'm confused, but we are still expected to help
Eli, right?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Emanuel Berg]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> (setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\U2502) 
>> (setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\U+2502)
>
> Use "M-x customize-variable" if you are not proficient
> enough in Emacs Lisp.

Use Emacs Lisp if you are not proficient enough with
customize ...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Wednesday, August 24th, 2022 at 1:40 AM, Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> wrote:


> wilnerthomas--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor wrote:
> 
> > > > As you do in the swamp?
> > > 
> > > It's all an orchestra of strings
> > > doing unbelievable things
> > > 
> > > https://dataswamp.org/~incal/vidz/zev-2.webm
> > 
> > What substance are you taking?
> 
> 
> Nothing you can handle anyway. Stick to Elisp. Err ...
> 
> > Anyway, have done, but to no avail
> > 
> > (setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\u2503)
> 
> 
> This works for me:
> 
> (setq display-fill-column-indicator t)
> (setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\u2503)

Does not work with Emacs 27.2

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Wednesday, August 24th, 2022 at 2:38 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:


> > Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 01:08:53 +0000
> > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me
> > Cc: wilnerthomas@tutanota.com, Eli Zaretskii eliz@gnu.org, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> > 
> > Tried to convince Eli to change it, but seems too obstinate to recognise the
> > problem
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot! That's a powerful motivator to help you in the future!

Just look at things how they are, rather than getting offended.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Wednesday, August 24th, 2022 at 2:45 AM, Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> wrote:


> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> > > Tried to convince Eli to change it, but seems too obstinate
> > > to recognise the problem
> > 
> > Thanks a lot! That's a powerful motivator to help you in
> > the future!
> 
> 
> Now I'm confused, but we are still expected to help
> Eli, right?

I want to help Eli, and also many other who would like some accessibility
measure to be used for things like indicators.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Wednesday, August 24th, 2022 at 2:46 AM, Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> wrote:


> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> > > (setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\U2502)
> > > (setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\U+2502)
> > 
> > Use "M-x customize-variable" if you are not proficient
> > enough in Emacs Lisp.
> 
> 
> Use Emacs Lisp if you are not proficient enough with
> customize ...

Someone needs to explain how to set `display-fill-column-indicator-character' with a `unicode'.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org>
> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 04:43:28 +0200
> 
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> >> Use *VE gives Lisp error: (error "Invalid character")
> >
> > It doesn't here. Are you sure you didn't make some
> > typing mistake?
> 
> Positive.

Then report it as a bug, please, with a recipe to reproduce.  (I
cannot reproduce on my system, FWIW.)

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Wednesday, August 24th, 2022 at 10:50 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:


> > From: Emanuel Berg incal@dataswamp.org
> > Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 04:43:28 +0200
> > 
> > Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > 
> > > > Use *VE gives Lisp error: (error "Invalid character")
> > > 
> > > It doesn't here. Are you sure you didn't make some
> > > typing mistake?
> > 
> > Positive.
> 
> 
> Then report it as a bug, please, with a recipe to reproduce. (I
> cannot reproduce on my system, FWIW.)

Turning again to the indicator, can the problem be fixed so that the indicator
in not so thin on a dark background.  It colour is also a problem as it does 
not meet the Accessible Criteria in WCAG 2.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 23:18:27 +0000
> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> Turning again to the indicator, can the problem be fixed so that the indicator
> in not so thin on a dark background.  It colour is also a problem as it does 
> not meet the Accessible Criteria in WCAG 2.

We've made a full circle: I suggested at the beginning to find a more
prominent character, and customize this feature to use that instead of
the default.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Thursday, August 25th, 2022 at 5:29 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:


> > Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 23:18:27 +0000
> > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me
> > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> > 
> > Turning again to the indicator, can the problem be fixed so that the indicator
> > in not so thin on a dark background. It colour is also a problem as it does
> > not meet the Accessible Criteria in WCAG 2.
> 
> 
> We've made a full circle: I suggested at the beginning to find a more
> prominent character, and customize this feature to use that instead of
> the default.

You have declined giving much information at how to set up the variable with a unicode,
and when I have done so, it did not work out.  The indicator remained the same as it has
been by default.  Refusing to follow any accessible criteria is also a disservice to
many users.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 05:42:58 +0000
> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> ------- Original Message -------
> On Thursday, August 25th, 2022 at 5:29 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> > > Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 23:18:27 +0000
> > > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me
> > > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> > > 
> > > Turning again to the indicator, can the problem be fixed so that the indicator
> > > in not so thin on a dark background. It colour is also a problem as it does
> > > not meet the Accessible Criteria in WCAG 2.
> > 
> > 
> > We've made a full circle: I suggested at the beginning to find a more
> > prominent character, and customize this feature to use that instead of
> > the default.
> 
> You have declined giving much information at how to set up the variable with a unicode,
> and when I have done so, it did not work out.  The indicator remained the same as it has
> been by default.

I didn't decline anything.  You are probably confusing me with someone
else.

With the customize interface, you just type the character, for example
using "C-x 8 RET" followed by the character's codepoint in hex. 

> Refusing to follow any accessible criteria is also a disservice to
> many users.

I didn't refuse anything.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[wilnerthomas--- via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Aug 25, 2022, 06:31 by eliz@gnu.org:

>> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 05:42:58 +0000
>> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
>> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
>>
>> ------- Original Message -------
>> On Thursday, August 25th, 2022 at 5:29 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> > > Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 23:18:27 +0000
>> > > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me
>> > > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
>> > > 
>> > > Turning again to the indicator, can the problem be fixed so that the indicator
>> > > in not so thin on a dark background. It colour is also a problem as it does
>> > > not meet the Accessible Criteria in WCAG 2.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > We've made a full circle: I suggested at the beginning to find a more
>> > prominent character, and customize this feature to use that instead of
>> > the default.
>>
>> You have declined giving much information at how to set up the variable with a unicode,
>> and when I have done so, it did not work out.  The indicator remained the same as it has
>> been by default.
>>
>
> I didn't decline anything.  You are probably confusing me with someone
> else.
>

Assuming you are right.

I have done

     (setq display-fill-column-indicator t)

     (setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\u2503)

     (set-face-foreground 'fill-column-indicator "green")

     (global-display-fill-column-indicator-mode)
 

Have also done 

    (global-display-fill-column-indicator-mode)

    (setq display-fill-column-indicator t)

    (setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\u2503)

     (set-face-foreground 'fill-column-indicator "green")


The two attempts did not change the indicator colour.


> With the customize interface, you just type the character, for example
> using "C-x 8 RET" followed by the character's codepoint in hex. 
>
>> Refusing to follow any accessible criteria is also a disservice to
>> many users.
>>
>
> I didn't refuse anything.
>
Accepting you are right about this one as well.  Have you seen how the indicator 
character looks like on a dark theme like modus-vivendi?

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 08:48:19 +0200 (CEST)
> From: wilnerthomas@tutanota.com
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> Aug 25, 2022, 06:31 by eliz@gnu.org:
> 
> > I didn't decline anything.  You are probably confusing me with someone
> > else.
> >
> 
> Assuming you are right.
> 
> I have done
> 
>      (setq display-fill-column-indicator t)
> 
>      (setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\u2503)
> 
>      (set-face-foreground 'fill-column-indicator "green")
> 
>      (global-display-fill-column-indicator-mode)

This is not the Customize interface.  You are obviously not proficient
enough with Emacs Lisp, so my suggestion was to use "M-x customize-variable"
instead:

> > With the customize interface, you just type the character, for example
> > using "C-x 8 RET" followed by the character's codepoint in hex. 

To customize the colors of the fill-column-indicator face, use the
command "M-x customize-face".

> >> Refusing to follow any accessible criteria is also a disservice to
> >> many users.
> >>
> >
> > I didn't refuse anything.
> >
> Accepting you are right about this one as well.  Have you seen how the indicator 
> character looks like on a dark theme like modus-vivendi?

Feel free to submit a bug report against that theme: it evidently
should define distinct colors for fill-column-indicator face.  Or you
could customize that face yourself, using "M-x customize-face".

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Thursday, August 25th, 2022 at 6:58 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:


> > Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 08:48:19 +0200 (CEST)
> > From: wilnerthomas@tutanota.com
> > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> > 
> > Aug 25, 2022, 06:31 by eliz@gnu.org:
> > 
> > > I didn't decline anything. You are probably confusing me with someone
> > > else.
> > 
> > Assuming you are right.
> > 
> > I have done
> > 
> > (setq display-fill-column-indicator t)
> > 
> > (setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\u2503)
> > 
> > (set-face-foreground 'fill-column-indicator "green")
> > 
> > (global-display-fill-column-indicator-mode)
> 
> 
> This is not the Customize interface. You are obviously not proficient
> enough with Emacs Lisp, so my suggestion was to use "M-x customize-variable"
> instead:

I am working on functionalities in elisp files.  Just calling me not proficient
with emacs and saying adios is very strange.  I have been able to do many things,
work with alists, making minor-modes, long lisp.  Enhancing your perception is what
is needed.
 
> > > With the customize interface, you just type the character, for example
> > > using "C-x 8 RET" followed by the character's codepoint in hex.
> 
> 
> To customize the colors of the fill-column-indicator face, use the
> command "M-x customize-face".
> 
> > > > Refusing to follow any accessible criteria is also a disservice to
> > > > many users.
> > > 
> > > I didn't refuse anything.
> > 
> > Accepting you are right about this one as well. Have you seen how the indicator
> > character looks like on a dark theme like modus-vivendi?
> 
> 
> Feel free to submit a bug report against that theme: it evidently
> should define distinct colors for fill-column-indicator face. Or you
> could customize that face yourself, using "M-x customize-face".

It would be a good thing to fix.  It is the origin of my problem.  Was not
expecting having to delve into the indicator size and character.  Just wanted
to test the indicator feature and get to an opinion of it.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Gregory Heytings]

>
> I have done
>
> (setq display-fill-column-indicator t)
> (setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\u2503)
> (set-face-foreground 'fill-column-indicator "green")
> (global-display-fill-column-indicator-mode)
>

This should work (except that the first line is unnecessary).  Put the 
last three lines in a file (say "test.el"), start Emacs with

emacs -Q -l test.el

and you'll see a thick green line on column 70.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 07:24:47 +0000
> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> > This is not the Customize interface. You are obviously not proficient
> > enough with Emacs Lisp, so my suggestion was to use "M-x customize-variable"
> > instead:
> 
> I am working on functionalities in elisp files.

Customization of Emacs for your needs doesn't have to be done in Lisp,
and doesn't usually require any programming at all.

> Just calling me not proficient with emacs and saying adios is very
> strange.

There was no adios in what I wrote.  I proposed to use a more
user-friendly customization interface, which should work around the
obstacles you had.  There's nothing strange in suggesting easier ways
of doing what you want; in some quarters it's considered good help.

How to specify characters in Emacs Lisp is very basic.  If you want to
do this customization in Lisp, I suggest to read the "Character Codes"
node in the ELisp manual, it explains those basics.  But your attempt
to do this in Lisp has more problems than just specifying characters,
so my suggestion is still to use the Customize interface, it will get
you to the goal faster and with fewer problems.

> > Feel free to submit a bug report against that theme: it evidently
> > should define distinct colors for fill-column-indicator face. Or you
> > could customize that face yourself, using "M-x customize-face".
> 
> It would be a good thing to fix.  It is the origin of my problem.  Was not
> expecting having to delve into the indicator size and character.  Just wanted
> to test the indicator feature and get to an opinion of it.

It is not possible to have defaults that suit everyone.  Especially if
you load non-default themes.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Thursday, August 25th, 2022 at 7:39 AM, Gregory Heytings <gregory@heytings.org> wrote:


> > I have done
> > 
> > (setq display-fill-column-indicator t)
> > (setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\u2503)
> > (set-face-foreground 'fill-column-indicator "green")
> > (global-display-fill-column-indicator-mode)
> 
> 
> This should work (except that the first line is unnecessary). Put the
> last three lines in a file (say "test.el"), start Emacs with
> 
> emacs -Q -l test.el
> 
> and you'll see a thick green line on column 70.

Right, but not when using a dark theme like modus-vivendi (part of modus-themes) 
that comes with emacs.  Been having enough patience with condescending people
stating I do not know shit.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[tomas]

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On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 07:47:06AM +0000, uzibalqa wrote:

[...]

> [...]  Been having enough patience with condescending people
> stating I do not know shit.

*plonk*

This also goes to your other pseudonyms, BTW.

-- 
t

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Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Gregory Heytings]

>>> I have done
>>>
>>> (setq display-fill-column-indicator t)
>>> (setq display-fill-column-indicator-character ?\u2503)
>>> (set-face-foreground 'fill-column-indicator "green")
>>> (global-display-fill-column-indicator-mode)
>>
>> This should work (except that the first line is unnecessary). Put the 
>> last three lines in a file (say "test.el"), start Emacs with
>>
>> emacs -Q -l test.el
>>
>> and you'll see a thick green line on column 70.
>
> Right, but not when using a dark theme like modus-vivendi (part of 
> modus-themes) that comes with emacs.  Been having enough patience with 
> condescending people stating I do not know shit.
>

That wasn't part of your original problem statement.  Put this in a 
"test.el" file:

(load-theme 'modus-vivendi t)
(global-display-fill-column-indicator-mode)
(set-face-attribute 'fill-column-indicator nil :background "green" :foreground "green" :height 0.3)

and start Emacs as above (emacs -Q -l test.el).  If the bar is not thick 
enough, you can make the :height value larger.

You're welcome.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Jean Louis]

* tomas@tuxteam.de <tomas@tuxteam.de> [2022-08-25 11:00]:
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 07:47:06AM +0000, uzibalqa wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > [...]  Been having enough patience with condescending people
> > stating I do not know shit.
> 
> *plonk*
> 
> This also goes to your other pseudonyms, BTW.

Please people, this is Emacs Help mailing list. 

It is not place for insults.

GNU Kind Communications Guidelines
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html

-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

P.S. But some of us get entertained 👀

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[tomas]

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On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 12:19:28PM +0300, Jean Louis wrote:
> * tomas@tuxteam.de <tomas@tuxteam.de> [2022-08-25 11:00]:
> > On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 07:47:06AM +0000, uzibalqa wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > [...]  Been having enough patience with condescending people
> > > stating I do not know shit.
> > 
> > *plonk*
> > 
> > This also goes to your other pseudonyms, BTW.
> 
> Please people, this is Emacs Help mailing list. 
> 
> It is not place for insults.

Thanks for the reminder.

Cheers
-- 
t

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Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Thursday, August 25th, 2022 at 7:46 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:


> > Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 07:24:47 +0000
> > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me
> > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> > 
> > > This is not the Customize interface. You are obviously not proficient
> > > enough with Emacs Lisp, so my suggestion was to use "M-x customize-variable"
> > > instead:
> > 
> > I am working on functionalities in elisp files.
> 
> 
> Customization of Emacs for your needs doesn't have to be done in Lisp,
> and doesn't usually require any programming at all.
> 
> > Just calling me not proficient with emacs and saying adios is very
> > strange.
> 
> 
> There was no adios in what I wrote. I proposed to use a more
> user-friendly customization interface, which should work around the
> obstacles you had. There's nothing strange in suggesting easier ways
> of doing what you want; in some quarters it's considered good help.

I rejected that approach for what I want to do.  If it cannot be done
through elisp, I will reject the activation of that feature.
 
> How to specify characters in Emacs Lisp is very basic. If you want to
> do this customization in Lisp, I suggest to read the "Character Codes"
> node in the ELisp manual, it explains those basics. But your attempt
> to do this in Lisp has more problems than just specifying characters,
> so my suggestion is still to use the Customize interface, it will get
> you to the goal faster and with fewer problems.

If the Lisp part has serious problems, the thing to take from all this,
is to improve the lisp part so it will not stay so problematic.
 
> > > Feel free to submit a bug report against that theme: it evidently
> > > should define distinct colors for fill-column-indicator face. Or you
> > > could customize that face yourself, using "M-x customize-face".

Will do so.  I should have been more specific about the theme related problem.
 
> > It would be a good thing to fix. It is the origin of my problem. Was not
> > expecting having to delve into the indicator size and character. Just wanted
> > to test the indicator feature and get to an opinion of it.
> 
> 
> It is not possible to have defaults that suit everyone. Especially if
> you load non-default themes.

How is it that Emacs Maintainers, knowing very well that modus-themes is the only 
theme designed with serious accessibility standards, do not make them the default
themes.  Defaults should be designed to suit most people.  Being able to distinguish 
text and using a good enough colour contrast is technical wisdom that any developer 
worth his salt should understand and act upon.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Christopher Dimech]

> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:19 PM
> From: "Jean Louis" <bugs@gnu.support>
> To: tomas@tuxteam.de
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode
>
> * tomas@tuxteam.de <tomas@tuxteam.de> [2022-08-25 11:00]:
> > On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 07:47:06AM +0000, uzibalqa wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > [...]  Been having enough patience with condescending people
> > > stating I do not know shit.
> > 
> > *plonk*
> > 
> > This also goes to your other pseudonyms, BTW.
> 
> Please people, this is Emacs Help mailing list. 
> 
> It is not place for insults.

That's what Berg usually does: shame, guilt, insults, and the need
to be right.  And he's not the only one.  
 
> GNU Kind Communications Guidelines
> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html
> 
> -- 
> Jean
> 
> Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
> https://www.fsf.org/campaigns
> 
> In support of Richard M. Stallman
> https://stallmansupport.org/
> 
> P.S. But some of us get entertained 👀
> 
>

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Jean Louis]

* Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com> [2022-08-25 14:39]:
> That's what Berg usually does: shame, guilt, insults, and the need
> to be right.  And he's not the only one.  

Please... you see it so, I understand, but that is surface.

I did not get that feeling. 

We are in this world of a mailing list about programming language, it
has obscure nature. There is humor involved. It is often hidden, not
easy to see.

If one takes meaning by surface only, how can one laugh about it?

-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Christopher Dimech]

> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:55 AM
> From: "Jean Louis" <bugs@gnu.support>
> To: "Christopher Dimech" <dimech@gmx.com>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode
>
> * Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com> [2022-08-25 14:39]:
> > That's what Berg usually does: shame, guilt, insults, and the need
> > to be right.  And he's not the only one.
>
> Please... you see it so, I understand, but that is surface.
>
> I did not get that feeling.
>
> We are in this world of a mailing list about programming language, it
> has obscure nature. There is humor involved. It is often hidden, not
> easy to see.
>
> If one takes meaning by surface only, how can one laugh about it?

I have seen many instances in the mailing lists where people using
TOR and other non-tracking privacy-respecting systems get denigrated
on the Gnu Mailing List by people who have no interest in respecting
other people's freedom to avoid surveillance.  If many still think
the comments are Surface Only and Simply Humorous, I can go on and
make an official statement with proof that will likely be taken up
by the international media outlets.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[tomas]

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On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 04:31:18AM +0200, Christopher Dimech wrote:

[...]

> I have seen many instances in the mailing lists where people using
> TOR and other non-tracking privacy-respecting systems get denigrated
> on the Gnu Mailing List by people who have no interest in respecting
> other people's freedom to avoid surveillance.  If many still think
> the comments are Surface Only and Simply Humorous, I can go on and
> make an official statement with proof that will likely be taken up
> by the international media outlets.

To me, the above is an example of disagreeable behaviour if there
is one. I don't want to curtail your freedom, but I choose to not
interact with you (this is an exception).

As to Emanuel -- he's fine. He misses the tone from time to time,
as we all do (I /know/ I do), but he's capable of reflecting and
apologising.

As far as I am concerned, your picking personally on him was wrong,
disgusting and unworthy of this mailing list. But that's my own
opinion.

-- 
tomás

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Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Christopher Dimech]

> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2022 at 4:13 PM
> From: tomas@tuxteam.de
> To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode
>
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 04:31:18AM +0200, Christopher Dimech wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > I have seen many instances in the mailing lists where people using
> > TOR and other non-tracking privacy-respecting systems get denigrated
> > on the Gnu Mailing List by people who have no interest in respecting
> > other people's freedom to avoid surveillance.  If many still think
> > the comments are Surface Only and Simply Humorous, I can go on and
> > make an official statement with proof that will likely be taken up
> > by the international media outlets.
>
> To me, the above is an example of disagreeable behaviour if there
> is one. I don't want to curtail your freedom, but I choose to not
> interact with you (this is an exception).

Absolutely right.  And if such people were around I will tell them
so to their face.  You can always interact with me should you turn
around.

> As to Emanuel -- he's fine. He misses the tone from time to time,
> as we all do (I /know/ I do), but he's capable of reflecting and
> apologising.

The problem is not about apologising, but that heckling others about the
systems they use is wrong at any level, particularly when we actually
promote ones that do not spy on users and give identification and location
details about them to other parties.

> As far as I am concerned, your picking personally on him was wrong,
> disgusting and unworthy of this mailing list. But that's my own
> opinion.

I act as I see fit, irrespective of any disgust by yourself or others.
Can rightly evaluate my worth, without seeking any approval.

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Jean Louis]

* Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com> [2022-08-26 05:31]:
> I have seen many instances in the mailing lists where people using
> TOR and other non-tracking privacy-respecting systems get denigrated
> on the Gnu Mailing List by people who have no interest in respecting
> other people's freedom to avoid surveillance.  If many still think
> the comments are Surface Only and Simply Humorous, I can go on and
> make an official statement with proof that will likely be taken up
> by the international media outlets.

I am not many. How could you even contemplate that me, who is one
person, is many? 

Are you telling me that I have multiple personality disorder? 👀


-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Jean Louis]

* Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com> [2022-08-26 08:07]:
> The problem is not about apologising, but that heckling others about
> the systems they use is wrong at any level, particularly when we
> actually promote ones that do not spy on users and give
> identification and location details about them to other parties.

I like the dis-culture of heckling of others about the operating
systems they use. I am sorry I am not mature enough. I would tell the
same even to government officers, and so I do whenever necessary.

You mentioned "system", so I guess you mean operating system.

Though the system, which is not an operating system, the one we use
and which is related to this mailing list is Emacs.

Though Emacs environment at some point of usage level may become
similar to operating system. 

I would rather name it Emacs operating environment.

If you mean by "system" an Emasc Lisp function, I actually welcome
critics on mailing list. This is because by experience, hackers here
give some indications, not necessary they will tell details about what
they mean in the first message. They may give clues how to access
information. Too often information is already available and users do
not reach for it. Critics may be cryptic. There is some joy in
discovering the meanings sooner rather than later.

-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Christopher Dimech]

> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2022 at 5:34 PM
> From: "Jean Louis" <bugs@gnu.support>
> To: "Christopher Dimech" <dimech@gmx.com>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode
>
> * Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com> [2022-08-26 05:31]:
> > I have seen many instances in the mailing lists where people using
> > TOR and other non-tracking privacy-respecting systems get denigrated
> > on the Gnu Mailing List by people who have no interest in respecting
> > other people's freedom to avoid surveillance.  If many still think
> > the comments are Surface Only and Simply Humorous, I can go on and
> > make an official statement with proof that will likely be taken up
> > by the international media outlets.
> 
> I am not many. How could you even contemplate that me, who is one
> person, is many? 
> 
> Are you telling me that I have multiple personality disorder? 👀
 
I did not point you out on anything.  Your comments always looked pleasant
and your help valuable.

Your comment is more likely due to my response that turned out selecting 
you as the recipient.  When I reply it is formally to the list irrespective
of how things stand in the recipient tags (TO, CC, BCC).  Although I should 
change this for future responses.

Thank you so very much for pointing that out. 

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Christopher Dimech]

> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2022 at 5:46 PM
> From: "Jean Louis" <bugs@gnu.support>
> To: "Christopher Dimech" <dimech@gmx.com>
> Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode
>
> * Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com> [2022-08-26 08:07]:
> > The problem is not about apologising, but that heckling others about
> > the systems they use is wrong at any level, particularly when we
> > actually promote ones that do not spy on users and give
> > identification and location details about them to other parties.
>
> I like the dis-culture of heckling of others about the operating
> systems they use. I am sorry I am not mature enough. I would tell the
> same even to government officers, and so I do whenever necessary.

Was referring to the kind of heckling intended to make people asking
for help Persona Non-Grata, in this mailing list and others because
other users cannot track them or figure out their identity.

Apart from my comment above, I agree with you.

> You mentioned "system", so I guess you mean operating system.
>
> Though the system, which is not an operating system, the one we use
> and which is related to this mailing list is Emacs.
>
> Though Emacs environment at some point of usage level may become
> similar to operating system.
>
> I would rather name it Emacs operating environment.
>
> If you mean by "system" an Emasc Lisp function, I actually welcome
> critics on mailing list. This is because by experience, hackers here
> give some indications, not necessary they will tell details about what
> they mean in the first message. They may give clues how to access
> information. Too often information is already available and users do
> not reach for it. Critics may be cryptic. There is some joy in
> discovering the meanings sooner rather than later.
>
> --
> Jean
>
> Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
> https://www.fsf.org/campaigns
>
> In support of Richard M. Stallman
> https://stallmansupport.org/
>
>

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Jean Louis]

* Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com> [2022-08-26 08:58]:
> > Are you telling me that I have multiple personality disorder? 👀
>  
> I did not point you out on anything.  Your comments always looked pleasant
> and your help valuable.

😸 I got you.


-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Emanuel Berg]

Jean Louis wrote:

> * Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com> [2022-08-26 08:58]:

OK, so what configuration is that?

And is it a good idea?

Both the mail and the date? If so, why/how?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Jean Louis]

* Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> [2022-09-04 04:50]:
> Jean Louis wrote:
> 
> > * Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com> [2022-08-26 08:58]:
> 
> OK, so what configuration is that?
> 
> And is it a good idea?
> 
> Both the mail and the date? If so, why/how?

I use best email client for Emacs, which is Mutt https://www.mutt.org,
setting is the one below:

set attribution="* %n <%a> [%(%Y-%m-%d %H:%M)]:"

I have removed language related words such as "Emanuel wrote: " as I
answer in various languages. I could inject a filter to first
recognize the language and then to decide which language to use for
that. 

-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Emanuel Berg]

Jean Louis wrote:

>> Both the mail and the date? If so, why/how?
>
> I use best email client for Emacs, which is Mutt
> https://www.mutt.org, setting is the one below:

Hm, maybe they should stick to e-mail then as that URL gives
me a bad certificate ...

> set attribution="* %n <%a> [%(%Y-%m-%d %H:%M)]:"

I wonder if it is so clever to publish the e-mail in the mail
body since it will then, unless removed or obfuscated which
has to happen explicitely, show up in web archives ...

> I have removed language related words such as "Emanuel
> wrote: " as I answer in various languages. I could inject
> a filter to first recognize the language and then to decide
> which language to use for that.

Okay.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Customising display-fill-column-indicator-mode

[Emanuel Berg]

>> set attribution="* %n <%a> [%(%Y-%m-%d %H:%M)]:"
>
> I wonder if it is so clever to publish the e-mail in the
> mail body since it will then, unless removed or obfuscated
> which has to happen explicitely, show up in web archives ...

And that doesn't happen:

  https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2022-09/msg00019.html

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal