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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Cc: Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Unbalanced change hooks (part 2) [Documentation fix still remaining]
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 16:34:46 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <jwvwpiyroi8.fsf-monnier+Inbox@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20160830191443.GH6672@acm.fritz.box> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Tue, 30 Aug 2016 19:14:43 +0000")

> There is software that cannot be written in any reasonable fashion
> without the technique under discussion.  I suspect, even if I don't know
> for sure, that CC Mode comes into that category.

It's trivial to demonstrate that it doesn't:
- consider any change between START and END to the buffer.
- you can always decompose it into:
  (a) delete everything from START to point-max.
  (b) insert at START (now point-max) the rest of the text.
- clearly the above deletions and insertions *could* happen, so CC-mode
  has to handle them and since all changes could be decomposed this way,
  CC-mode does not *need* to handle any other case.
- to handle (a) you don't need to know anything from b-c-f.
- to handle (b) you don't need to know anything from b-c-f.

CQFD

> No, I quite clearly and accurately described the Emacs that does exist:
> The technique works almost always, but you have to detect and handle
> exceptions carefully, something that can be easily done.

Daniel's description gives you the added info necessary to know how to
detect that situation and what you might want to do about it.

FWIW, I like Daniel's wording.  It is about as precise as we can make it
without imposing undue burden (IOW I think Emacs's implementation can
reasonably (and should) obey that description) and I think it gives the
right intuition.


        Stefan



  reply	other threads:[~2016-08-30 20:34 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 189+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-07-31 12:16 Unbalanced change hooks (part 2) Alan Mackenzie
2016-07-31 13:58 ` Noam Postavsky
2016-07-31 15:21   ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-07-31 15:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-07-31 17:28   ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-07-31 18:11     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-07-31 18:52       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-07-31 19:08         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-07-31 19:20       ` Noam Postavsky
2016-07-31 21:26       ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-01 13:01         ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-01 13:07         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-01 16:53           ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-01 17:15             ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-01 19:39               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-01 20:52                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-02 14:44                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-02 16:09                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-02 16:42                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-02 17:24                       ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-07 14:49                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-07 15:09                           ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-07 21:48                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-08  0:55                               ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-02 14:46                   ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-01 19:37             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-02 14:39             ` Stefan Monnier
2016-07-31 18:55     ` Stefan Monnier
2016-07-31 19:26       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-07-31 21:59         ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-01 13:09           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-01 14:36             ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-01 14:48               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-01 15:28                 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-07-31 19:33       ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-07-31 19:21     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-09 15:01   ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-09 15:14     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-19 14:51   ` Phillip Lord
2016-08-30  1:15     ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-30 14:34       ` Phillip Lord
2016-08-30 15:11         ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-31 11:00           ` Phillip Lord
2016-08-31 12:24             ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-01  6:49               ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-01 13:36                 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-01  6:40           ` Phillip Lord
2016-09-01 13:33             ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-02 11:34               ` Phillip Lord
2016-08-30 16:08         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-01 16:38 ` Richard Stallman
2016-08-02 10:15   ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-02 10:37     ` Richard Copley
2016-08-02 16:11       ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-02 14:57     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-02 16:55       ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-02 17:17         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-02 18:30           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-02 19:38             ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-03  2:36               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-08 14:36             ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-08 15:42               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-08 16:54                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-08 17:17                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-08 18:42                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-08 19:04                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-08 19:54                         ` Unbalanced change hooks (part 2) [PATCH] Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-09 15:08                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-09 16:38                             ` Unbalanced change hooks (part 2) [Documentation fix still remaining] Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-09 16:42                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-09 18:13                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-09 18:35                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-09 17:14                               ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-09 18:19                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-09 19:09                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-10 14:21                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-10 14:56                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-10 15:16                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-10 15:44                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-10 16:03                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-10 16:11                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-18 14:26                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-18 16:56                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-19  8:45                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-19  9:12                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-19  9:21                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-19  9:39                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-19  9:19                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-10 16:18                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-10 16:54                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-10 17:49                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-10 18:10                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-10 18:57                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-10 19:08                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-10 19:50                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-11 11:29                                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-11 16:43                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-28 11:23                                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-28 15:01                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-28 22:16                                                           ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-28 22:44                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-28 23:11                                                               ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-29  0:09                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-29  3:18                                                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-29 13:00                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-29 14:51                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-29 15:50                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-29 16:22                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-29 15:14                                                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-29 15:44                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-30 14:07                                                                           ` Phillip Lord
2016-08-30 15:51                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-30 16:22                                                                               ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-30 16:46                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-29 14:50                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-29 15:30                                                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-29 16:20                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-29 16:26                                                                           ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-29 17:01                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-29 17:48                                                                               ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-29 18:04                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-29 18:16                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-30  2:27                                                                                     ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-30  2:44                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-30  0:25                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-30  2:26                                                                                     ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-30  2:38                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-30  2:54                                                                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-30 14:20                                                                                         ` Phillip Lord
2016-08-30 15:08                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-30 12:56                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-30 14:12                                                                       ` Phillip Lord
2016-08-30 16:06                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-31 11:20                                                                           ` Phillip Lord
2016-08-31 14:57                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-30 17:12                                                                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-30 17:27                                                                         ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-30 17:42                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-30 17:46                                                                             ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-30 18:00                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-30 18:04                                                                                 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-30 18:46                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-30 18:58                                                                                     ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-30 19:17                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-30 21:46                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-31  2:38                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-30 18:27                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-01 13:46                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-30 18:01                                                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-30 18:06                                                                                 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-30 18:17                                                                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-30 18:30                                                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-30 18:32                                                                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-30 18:47                                                                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-30 18:55                                                                                           ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-30 19:14                                                                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-30 20:34                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier [this message]
2016-08-30 20:53                                                                                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-30 21:37                                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-30 18:36                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-30 18:22                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-30 18:00                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-30 17:27                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-30 17:42                                                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-30 17:53                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-30 18:16                                                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-30 18:51                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-30 19:00                                                                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-30 18:14                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2016-09-01 21:25                                                                       ` Davis Herring
2016-09-02  7:26                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-28 22:36                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-30 13:30                                                         ` Phillip Lord
2016-08-30 13:39                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-31 11:04                                                             ` Phillip Lord
2016-08-30 15:47                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-30 16:01                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-30 16:58                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-30 17:57                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-31 11:17                                                                   ` Phillip Lord
2016-08-31 11:12                                                                 ` Phillip Lord
2016-08-30 16:23                                                             ` Daniel Colascione
2016-08-30 16:53                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-02 19:00           ` Unbalanced change hooks (part 2) Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-02 19:25             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-07 21:16               ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-08-08 15:38                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-08-08 19:56                 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-08-08 20:16                   ` Alan Mackenzie

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