From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suggest installing more fonts? Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 15:37:40 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87wnzqa1be.fsf@gnus.org> <83blh2ugqb.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9843"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 16 21:42:16 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kTVcG-0002T3-48 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 21:42:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52130 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTVcF-00034e-69 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 15:42:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40326) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTVXx-0000h2-OW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 15:37:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:17588) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTVXt-0001I4-Al; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 15:37:48 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 9711880EC1; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 15:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id A455380683; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 15:37:41 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1602877061; bh=CzSVOESaf/7MLJjJSEiCyJFhzcKWphctYjv0BARWFJ0=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=W0XKkP72l8D6AV8tnN8LR6c1efSz9RtUbAFWvRIVZWYa5qHVmP8QZXW6QbFWci9DR B+aU93kDb1MFElaAA2G4MVDhNVUbTpWPLQ+Br/fuLKImovdwpyB0h5vyIkfLkSQmG5 qYlzG6QjkzUgYo/bCmkdg6xyJ/AJDeLbHczXZ6XJ6MrwV7h6V6rImGwQll/NzGXpbP gLsXSSPMpGkq43Fwaq/XG4AHN1QCItMid6FOSl6lOoOtxUJ3sZJCFy0coNIi+bYy5d jHWPz4mxVsMpBywqmJul7fxlTZ0xXL3U4xj26RidgnW3x6yLouiKrZsvMI8qCOxiYs NF+6v347kdvzw== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [157.52.9.240]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 597D6120264; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 15:37:41 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <83blh2ugqb.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 16 Oct 2020 22:13:16 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/16 14:48:04 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257862 Archived-At: >> - Does the problem only affect Emacs and not other applications? >> If so why? > AFAIK, "most other applications", at least those I could investigate, > come with fixed lists of fonts to use for each script. These lists > are maintained for each OS and are adjusted as the OS version and the > fonts change. This method has its advantages and also its > disadvantages; I think both are quite clear. But then it means that "installing more fonts" is not really the solution that the user needs to follow, right? >> - Do users immediately run to search the internet for answers without >> even trying to interact any further with their Emacs instance to >> investigate the problem first? >> - If they do interact with Emacs, what do they do? Do they move the >> mouse over the tofu? Do they look for some help some other way? > The rational thing to do is to use "C-u C-x =", see the script of the > problematic character(s), and then find and install some font that > covers those characters. But from what you said above it's not just a question of installing fonts (since what you wrote before suggests that the same problem doesn't affect other applications on the same system). Also I suspect that this requires non-trivial knowledge: - `C-u C-x =`, which most beginning Emacs users won't know. - The notion of "script" and how to find it out. - How to know which font covers which script. - Potentially how to tell Emacs which font to use for which script. Stefan