From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs Subject: Re: 23.0.60; Feature request: Menu item "load init files" after -q/-Q Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 11:57:27 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87tzig16o6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87od8ng92x.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87y77recuj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87prt2droq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1207583905 19551 80.91.229.12 (7 Apr 2008 15:58:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 15:58:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Reiner Steib To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 07 17:58:57 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Jitk5-0005cH-OD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:58:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JitjS-0006AQ-KZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 11:58:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JitjP-0006A2-H4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 11:58:03 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JitjM-00067d-Ct for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 11:58:02 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JitjM-00067V-1I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 11:58:00 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JitjL-0006Gp-Cd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 11:57:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166] helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1JitjK-0008VX-Vw for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 11:57:59 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JitjG-0006Ao-Gc for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 11:57:58 -0400 Original-Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JitjF-00069o-RE; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 11:57:53 -0400 Original-Received: from ceviche.home (vpn-132-204-232-194.acd.umontreal.ca [132.204.232.194]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m37FvpZS016305; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 11:57:52 -0400 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 75B47B46F1; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 11:57:27 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <87prt2droq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (Stephen J. Turnbull's message of "Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:56:05 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-NAI-Spam-Score: -2.5 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered BAYES_00=-2.5 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:94582 gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs:21921 Archived-At: >> But that's the issue: if sending mail works "reliably" from "emacs -Q" >> there's no need for "load .emacs". > That's your issue, which I agree is an issue, though I don't see how > you propose to address it via "load .emacs". You said: "it will normally be fixed by loading the init files". >> The case when there's an error is the easy one. The problem is when >> sendmail accepts the mail and then silently drops it, > I don't see how we can detect that from Emacs, let alone prevent it. That's the problem. >> sends it to someone who'll drop it as "spam", > PEBKAC, not solvable at our end AFAICS. Not PEBCAK at all. Most machines nowadays which have /usr/sbin/sendmail have it misconfigured in such a way that it may very well send it to the right place, but the right place will drop it as "spam". In case you wonder: yes I hate blacklists. >> sends it to a black hole that nobody will ever look at (e.g. a >> local mailbox). > In both cases I claim are PEBKAC, the user should be using > report-emacs-bug (or whatever it may be called nowadays), which should > set up the To header correctly. The problem is not the "To:" header. It's the necessity to setup your MTA so that it sends email through your ISP's SMTP server. And you may not even know your ISP and his SMTP server (e.g. in most hotpspots). In many cases, the only reliable way for the user to send an email is via a webmail application. Stefan