From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Most of Elisp lacks lexical-binding: t Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2019 22:31:34 -0500 Message-ID: References: <15a15e1c-c44b-b978-82f0-7bbb6b1b8ff1@googlemail.com> <20190202145423.GB1067@ACM> <87y36vzrhl.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83zhraud00.fsf@gnu.org> <87imxwsn5t.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8d29ff9d-1d0f-497d-9b6b-9622182232d9@cs.ucla.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="134029"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 08 04:32:37 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1grwu2-000Ygn-7Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2019 04:32:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50432 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1grwu1-00046A-1k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Feb 2019 22:32:33 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49383) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1grwtM-000443-GG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Feb 2019 22:31:53 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1grwtK-0004ev-LF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Feb 2019 22:31:52 -0500 Original-Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=51688 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1grwtI-0004e8-Jn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Feb 2019 22:31:50 -0500 Original-Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1grwtE-000Xa0-1g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2019 04:31:44 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Cancel-Lock: sha1:bKCOdWy+1vmveXRW+d+VzxzYU+w= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:233101 Archived-At: >> Breakage will be inevitable, indeed, but we can spread the pain over >> some number of years. > Fast bandaid removal causes significantly less pain than slow. See: I don't think the analogy holds. E.g. one of the main motivations to "spread the pain" is that when someone bumps into something that breaks because of the new use of lexical-binding in one context, it may motivate him to proactively fix the problem in other contexts (where the problem doesn't appear yet but would appear at one of the next steps in the transition). So I think the overall pain is reduced. This said, I do believe that we could speed this up by making "development builds" (i.e. builds where emacs-version has 4 elements) a lot more aggressive wrt to dropping backward compatibility: the average user relying on normal releases would not be affected, but those living on the edge would be more often motivated to update the packages they maintain or use. Stefan