From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Clojure mode Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2023 23:21:50 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87zg2hsyrd.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87h6ontwfv.fsf@posteo.net> <4874df51-9652-f9fd-0576-9dd6a4cba31a@gutov.dev> <3d5ef276-ce6b-9ff0-0c60-1da6b887b365@gutov.dev> <1070e416-2a13-49e0-90d4-fbc526cd461c@app.fastmail.com> <83ttskia84.fsf@gnu.org> <97c96b72-ebba-4853-98d2-86e3ba8bbc05@app.fastmail.com> <83sf84i9ix.fsf@gnu.org> <837cpfhzdm.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15562"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: chad , Eli Zaretskii , bozhidar@batsov.dev, dmitry@gutov.dev, rms@gnu.org, danny@dfreeman.email, emacs-devel@gnu.org, manuel.uberti@inventati.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 29 05:22:58 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qapJi-0003oj-Es for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 29 Aug 2023 05:22:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qapIn-0001tE-O8; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 23:22:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qapIm-0001t3-4u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 23:22:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qapIh-0002Dn-Rd; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 23:21:59 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 1612310009E; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 23:21:53 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1693279311; bh=PCi5fADtwG0RoL3fMV5DzzOTnkeGSovcZQHbKmO4bM4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=oley95kHepsh7qBGGB7ThKlylu8uTGAADNEa2SeLHbE/h1JBY8NBQ0S19pt/lEnuV dTdAZd58kuyzqomWWyOZ38jl9XgDgsXQ1ujojhbNpf5sc0FSHtBufCSwdFaEuoh166 MnYhXxW2kqRtdAVkQhRssCXNRYKfveQSkdr4Z2fNydyIe0a83N/kDSLk2tEuPfUizK BhDBZAbqy6VUCY6w7t3Ytyzm96YY9Q7HLN3kw9glzdzBb7OjBrDe/vDZb7BqsZXuTb h827hsRosyDrPtV0ZhLFMo5TOR3RJdOK+ITAhaKHGTz1STEKlyIw5vaEmh9UZLP7h4 ZNgxZdO3OVfgQ== Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id A5252100068; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 23:21:51 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.229.156]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 559F11202A8; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 23:21:51 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Tue, 29 Aug 2023 00:03:54 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309474 Archived-At: > How would your idea compare to this?: > > https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/gnu-elpa.html > > If the idea is similar, perhaps you could try to work your ideas into > that package. FWIW, that package has some serious implementation issues: If you do (autoload 'closure-mode ...) and arrange for that autoload to prompt the user to install the package (which is how the `gnu-elpa` works), it tends to cause problems in all kinds of circumstances. The "easy" ones look like: - When the users already said they're not interested. The harder ones look like: - When the caller already decided to use `clojure-mode` rather than something else because it's `fboundp`. - When the function wasn't called at all, but instead someone just asked to see its doc (and it somehow triggered an autoload). - When the function wasn't called at all, but instead the macroexpander decided to autoload the function just to see what it's about. ... A grep of `autoload-do-load` will give you an idea of the breadth of the problem. Maybe we should go for a different implementation strategy. Stefan