From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#15095: 24.2; mail items in Tools menu confusing to new users Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:10:32 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87y584tdzu.fsf@abbey.wistly.net> <837gfop2r7.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1376507484 1419 80.91.229.3 (14 Aug 2013 19:11:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 19:11:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Carson Chittom , 15095@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 14 21:11:25 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1V9gTZ-0004hd-MI for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 21:11:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49633 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V9gTZ-0004Q9-7u for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:11:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44719) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V9gTO-0004PK-Hp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:11:18 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V9gTH-00084b-3a for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:11:10 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:36147) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V9gTH-00084X-0A for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:11:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V9gTG-0002tl-Jv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:11:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 19:11:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15095 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 15095-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15095.137650743811093 (code B ref 15095); Wed, 14 Aug 2013 19:11:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 15095) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Aug 2013 19:10:38 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58696 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V9gSs-0002sq-18 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:10:38 -0400 Original-Received: from chene.dit.umontreal.ca ([132.204.246.20]:50776) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1V9gSp-0002sf-Eu for 15095@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:10:35 -0400 Original-Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (lechon.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.242]) by chene.dit.umontreal.ca (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id r7EJAXul001034; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:10:33 -0400 Original-Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id E7C82B420C; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:10:32 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <837gfop2r7.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 14 Aug 2013 21:05:00 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-NAI-Spam-Flag: NO X-NAI-Spam-Threshold: 5 X-NAI-Spam-Score: 0 X-NAI-Spam-Rules: 1 Rules triggered RV4670=0 X-NAI-Spam-Version: 2.3.0.9362 : core <4670> : streams <1019596> : uri <1506658> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:77353 Archived-At: >> This bug report is regarding the usability of the menu system. The >> "Tools" menu has three options for mail/news: >> >> - Read Net News (Gnus) >> - Read Mail (RMAIL) >> - Send Mail (with Gnus Message) C-x m >> >> Any user new to Emacs would, reasonably in my view, ask, "Why do I read >> Net News with Gnus and send mail with Gnus Message (is that different >> from just Gnus?) but read mail with RMAIL?" My recommendation is to >> eliminate a specific "Send Mail" menu item, since I think most people >> think of reading and sending mail together as a single task. We'd then >> have two items, something like: >> >> - Read/Send Mail & Net News (Gnus) >> - Read/Send Mail (RMAIL) I think "Send Mail" should be replaced with "Compose new mail". Then it makes more sense to have a separate entry for it. And the (Gnus) and (RMAIL) annotations should be removed from the menu item. They could be moved to the :help-echo thingy, but they need to make it clear that it's just the currently configured "backend". > That's not really the issue here. The real problem is that the "Gnus" > part of "Gnus Message" is misleading: message.el is a package that was Indeed, the name should just be "Message". Stefan