From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Bidirectional text and URLs Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 10:53:29 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87a93cngwv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <837fyfml31.fsf@gnu.org> <874mtio7wh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83r3wml8kq.fsf@gnu.org> <83a938aeuc.fsf@gnu.org> <838uir8huv.fsf@gnu.org> <83388y6rb3.fsf@gnu.org> <83mw7463cz.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417708446 24674 80.91.229.3 (4 Dec 2014 15:54:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 15:54:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 04 16:53:59 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XwYj7-0004je-KD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 16:53:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46438 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwYj7-0006VO-An for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 10:53:57 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54344) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwYix-0006VE-Dl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 10:53:54 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwYip-000707-Tq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 10:53:47 -0500 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:6557) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwYih-0006yX-G6; Thu, 04 Dec 2014 10:53:31 -0500 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjwPAOwQflRMCqTq/2dsb2JhbABbgweDYIVaxR0EAgKBJBcBAQEBAQF8hAMBAQMBViMFCwsOJhIUGA0kiEoJ1lkBAQEHAQEBAR6QbweESAWLAY5Gg3uRbYF4hBkhgncBAQE X-IPAS-Result: AjwPAOwQflRMCqTq/2dsb2JhbABbgweDYIVaxR0EAgKBJBcBAQEBAQF8hAMBAQMBViMFCwsOJhIUGA0kiEoJ1lkBAQEHAQEBAR6QbweESAWLAY5Gg3uRbYF4hBkhgncBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,502,1413259200"; d="scan'208";a="99552010" Original-Received: from 76-10-164-234.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([76.10.164.234]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 04 Dec 2014 10:53:30 -0500 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id CBA6C996B; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 10:53:29 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Thu, 04 Dec 2014 09:30:37 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 206.248.154.181 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:178829 Archived-At: > But if the buffer is mostly ordinary LTR text, but has a little RTL > text in it, the non-bidi user will probably not notice that and could > get fooled. That is the case for which I think a warning is useful. When I see a bit of hebrew text in a buffer, I wouldn't know if it's displayed L2R or R2L and either way wouldn't make any difference to me, so I'm definitely not "fooled". This happens reasonably often, and I wouldn't want to be "warned" that there's some R2L script in my buffer, since I can see it plainly since the characters are different anyway. The problematic case that started this thread was because strongly L2R characters were displayed in R2L fashion because of their context. And *that* is indeed a problem, because there was no obvious visual clue: the reversed chars were all latin chars. So, if we want to emit a warning, it should not be when "there's some R2L text in an L2R context" but only when L2R characters end up layed out in R2L because of the context. I'm not familiar enough with bidi uses to know for sure whether such "forced wrong-way layout" is something that can occur regularly in normal/legitimate situations, but at least it's something that would fool me every time, so I think a warning would be OK for those cases. Stefan