From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 4449301: * etc/NEWS: Improve documentation of 'package-initialize'. Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:50:29 -0500 Message-ID: References: <20191022021600.2389.91268@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20191022021602.B41B3209DE@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="45070"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Emacs developers To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 12 16:50:49 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iUYRM-000BQw-Cb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 16:50:48 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36936 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iUYRL-0006SB-0f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:50:47 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48226) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iUYRD-0006Q9-65 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:50:40 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iUYRB-00034I-Ij for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:50:38 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:43353) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iUYRB-000331-BW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:50:37 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 674A8449BCD; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:50:36 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 28749448B04; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:50:35 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1573573835; bh=r199zm5L4J+h2b9NDnh4yLwD+MVdSwgFix3fEXfGpxA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=AtKH8841HvMXsU402YG+Nz6R1No5Ky0ywg+PF4bCARNL/6NGnNuFHIBdFTR9wsFTb SdQq/HXBPDmJfiev84F1LlzHrWLROB7kp/RGfHqEO8WM38HGrH5bLvQixkjP0IitDA NcGW3bunb6BQVI16ClBAq96BxuylHibVKsx5+Hq8nI+VkFnY4Dw/GDF6IbZzxr5Lbb PFXU9qSmXeuLrLLZjApfX8TvRejB927+oLC1PUbiy1y2h0FK3vXlYMjisxPRoYqQP4 //J4cfYetdPugm1kuDiuy3+QUmG3C2kVayaDi43mpdaH91ZwEvzqLKQZXGUsqr6PF4 sOeiHgJYp9ZDg== Original-Received: from alfajor (modemcable157.163-203-24.mc.videotron.ca [24.203.163.157]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ECC231203D8; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:50:34 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Mon, 11 Nov 2019 17:07:07 +0100") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 132.204.25.50 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:242112 Archived-At: >> Currently, this requires setting (setq package-alist nil) by hand to >> force reloading the package descriptors, but my hope is that we can >> improve this in the future (e.g. with a :setter placed on those vars so >> that package-activate-all is called again when they're modified via >> custom). > > OK, thanks for explaining that. I have attached a patch which changes > package-enable-at-startup into a defvar for now. I'm not sure if there's much harm in keeping it as a defcustom, so I'll let someone else decide whether we should change it. But if we do want to change it, the patch looks OK to me in this respect. > I've also added documentation to package-load-list and > package-user-dir to explain the above quirks. But this doesn't mention the fact that it still works if they use `package-quickstart`. >> Also, a "late-setting" of `package-load-list` (e.g. when set via >> customize) will still work if you use `package-quickstart`. > I have two questions here: > 1. I can't find anything on package-quickstart in the user manual. > Is that intentional? No. > Perhaps it would make sense to create a new node "initialization of > packages" which could describe all this. Yes. Maybe it should be a bit more general and include discussion of customize settings. IOW it could talk about dependencies and ordering between package.el, custom.el, and "manual Elisp settings". > 2. Should package-quickstart have a :set attribute with a value of > 'package-quickstart-refresh? I don't think so: the refresh should happen when the set of installed/activated packages changes, whereas what you suggest would cause a refresh to happen at every Emacs startup. But I guess it does deserve a :set function, which should take care to run `package-quickstart-refresh` if there's no quickstart file yet, or to delete the quickstart file when set to nil (in both cases it should maybe prompt the user before actually doing it?). Stefan