* Re: /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence some gcc warnings. [not found] <E1PUCaG-00051g-NC@internal.in.savannah.gnu.org> @ 2010-12-19 11:41 ` Romain Francoise 2010-12-19 13:59 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Romain Francoise @ 2010-12-19 11:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: emacs-devel This commit includes a change in src/lread.c that isn't documented. Also, could you *please* commit ChangeLog cleanups separately? It's just noise, it makes it harder to review the real changes. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence some gcc warnings. 2010-12-19 11:41 ` /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence some gcc warnings Romain Francoise @ 2010-12-19 13:59 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-12-19 15:01 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2010-12-19 13:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Romain Francoise; +Cc: emacs-devel > This commit includes a change in src/lread.c that isn't documented. Oops, indeed that was a pilot error, thanks for noticing. > Also, could you *please* commit ChangeLog cleanups separately? No, quite the contrary, people should not commit ChangeLog changes separately. > It's just noise, it makes it harder to review the real changes. Indeed, it is. The solution is to stop maintaining the ChangeLog files manually. Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence some gcc warnings. 2010-12-19 13:59 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2010-12-19 15:01 ` Eli Zaretskii 2010-12-20 2:53 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2010-12-19 15:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: romain, emacs-devel > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> > Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 08:59:50 -0500 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > Also, could you *please* commit ChangeLog cleanups separately? > > No, quite the contrary, people should not commit ChangeLog changes separately. He said "ChangeLog cleanups", not "ChangeLog changes". Whitespace changes, fixes of dates, reformatting, etc. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence some gcc warnings. 2010-12-19 15:01 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2010-12-20 2:53 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-12-20 8:03 ` Štěpán Němec 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2010-12-20 2:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: romain, emacs-devel >> > Also, could you *please* commit ChangeLog cleanups separately? >> No, quite the contrary, people should not commit ChangeLog >> changes separately. > He said "ChangeLog cleanups", not "ChangeLog changes". Whitespace > changes, fixes of dates, reformatting, etc. Oh, sorry, I'm too dense, aren't I? Yes, I see it's more contentious, but it boils down to the same: ChangeLog diffs just shouldn't be looked at. Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence some gcc warnings. 2010-12-20 2:53 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2010-12-20 8:03 ` Štěpán Němec 2010-12-20 14:04 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Štěpán Němec @ 2010-12-20 8:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, romain, emacs-devel Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes: >>> > Also, could you *please* commit ChangeLog cleanups separately? >>> No, quite the contrary, people should not commit ChangeLog >>> changes separately. >> He said "ChangeLog cleanups", not "ChangeLog changes". Whitespace >> changes, fixes of dates, reformatting, etc. > > Oh, sorry, I'm too dense, aren't I? > Yes, I see it's more contentious, but it boils down to the same: > ChangeLog diffs just shouldn't be looked at. ...which is precisely the point being made -- if you committed ChangeLog cleanups separately, it would be much easier to never look at them. Not mentioning bisecting, reverting and all the usual (D)VCS best practices... Štěpán ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence some gcc warnings. 2010-12-20 8:03 ` Štěpán Němec @ 2010-12-20 14:04 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-12-20 14:19 ` Chong Yidong 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2010-12-20 14:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Štěpán Němec; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, romain, emacs-devel > ...which is precisely the point being made -- if you committed ChangeLog > cleanups separately, it would be much easier to never look at them. Quite the contrary: they'd even get their own revision-id. > Not mentioning bisecting, reverting and all the usual (D)VCS best > practices... I fail to see the relationship between ChangeLog changes and bisecting. In any case, the way forward is to stop using ChangeLog files. Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence some gcc warnings. 2010-12-20 14:04 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2010-12-20 14:19 ` Chong Yidong 2010-12-20 15:31 ` /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence somegcc warnings Drew Adams 2010-12-20 18:08 ` /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence some gcc warnings Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Chong Yidong @ 2010-12-20 14:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier Cc: Eli Zaretskii, romain, Štěpán Němec, emacs-devel Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes: > I fail to see the relationship between ChangeLog changes and > bisecting. In any case, the way forward is to stop using ChangeLog > files. I still find the ChangeLog rather useful. Occasional extra verbiage in the bzr diffs and an extra minute's editing work when merging branches is not a large price to pay. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* RE: /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence somegcc warnings. 2010-12-20 14:19 ` Chong Yidong @ 2010-12-20 15:31 ` Drew Adams 2010-12-20 16:51 ` Karl Fogel 2010-12-20 18:08 ` /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence some gcc warnings Stefan Monnier 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2010-12-20 15:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Chong Yidong', 'Stefan Monnier' Cc: 'Eli Zaretskii', emacs-devel > > In any case, the way forward is to stop using ChangeLog files. > > I still find the ChangeLog rather useful. Occasional extra > verbiage in the bzr diffs and an extra minute's editing work > when merging branches is not a large price to pay. And Emacs users often want to or sometimes need to understand the source code, and sometimes across versions. And users who write Elisp code sometimes want to understand development changes within a given release cycle. Users deserve the source code, including its comments (which often reflect on implementation or design). Likewise its change logs (ditto). Users should not need to access BZR or any other v-c interface to get access to the change-log info. Delivering it as part of Emacs helps users. Beyond delivering it with Emacs, making it available via http also helps - as in http://repo.or.cz/w/emacs.git/tree/HEAD:/lisp (or http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/emacs/trunk/files/head%3A/lisp/, which doesn't work as well). Change-log info is meta-info about the code and its behavior, just like comments and doc and NEWS are. Please keep it accessible to users locally, as part of their Emacs installation/delivery. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence somegcc warnings. 2010-12-20 15:31 ` /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence somegcc warnings Drew Adams @ 2010-12-20 16:51 ` Karl Fogel 2010-12-20 17:18 ` Drew Adams 2010-12-20 18:05 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Karl Fogel @ 2010-12-20 16:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Drew Adams Cc: 'Chong Yidong', 'Eli Zaretskii', 'Stefan Monnier', emacs-devel "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes: >And Emacs users often want to or sometimes need to understand the >source code, and sometimes across versions. And users who write Elisp >code sometimes want to understand development changes within a given >release cycle. > >Users deserve the source code, including its comments (which often reflect on >implementation or design). Likewise its change logs (ditto). Users should not >need to access BZR or any other v-c interface to get access to the change-log >info. Delivering it as part of Emacs helps users. Beyond delivering it with >Emacs, making it available via http also helps - as in >http://repo.or.cz/w/emacs.git/tree/HEAD:/lisp (or >http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/emacs/trunk/files/head%3A/lisp/, which >doesn't work as well). > >Change-log info is meta-info about the code and its behavior, just like >comments and doc and NEWS are. Please keep it accessible to users >locally, as part of their Emacs installation/delivery. If "users should not need to access BZR" to get access to change-log info, then that is not an argument for storing the ChangeLogs in BZR. It is an argument for generating a user-friendly web page straight from the version control logs (thus "making it available via http") and doing something simliar when building a tarball distribution (thus "delivering it with Emacs"). -Karl ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* RE: /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence somegcc warnings. 2010-12-20 16:51 ` Karl Fogel @ 2010-12-20 17:18 ` Drew Adams 2010-12-20 18:05 ` Stefan Monnier 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2010-12-20 17:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Karl Fogel' Cc: 'Chong Yidong', 'Eli Zaretskii', 'Stefan Monnier', emacs-devel > If "users should not need to access BZR" to get access to change-log > info, then that is not an argument for storing the ChangeLogs in BZR. > > It is an argument for generating a user-friendly web page > straight from the version control logs (thus "making it available > via http") and doing something simliar when building a tarball > distribution (thus "delivering it with Emacs"). I guess you are agreeing with me, Karl (but I'm not too sure ;-)). But just because it is helpful (IMO) to provide users such info locally and via HTTP, that does not mean that we should not also provide vc access to such info. And it does not say anything about where we "store" the info for Emacs Dev. The info can be available in more than one location, by copy and by pointer. But (IMO) users should obtain a copy along with the Emacs source code - that was my point. Vc systems are handy for creating, accessing, and storing change messages - no question about it. All I'm asking is that the info thus recorded continue to be available also to users locally (and if possible via http), as part of the delivered Emacs sources. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence somegcc warnings. 2010-12-20 16:51 ` Karl Fogel 2010-12-20 17:18 ` Drew Adams @ 2010-12-20 18:05 ` Stefan Monnier 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2010-12-20 18:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Karl Fogel Cc: 'Chong Yidong', 'Eli Zaretskii', Drew Adams, emacs-devel > It is an argument for generating a user-friendly web page straight from > the version control logs (thus "making it available via http") and doing > something simliar when building a tarball distribution (thus "delivering > it with Emacs"). Indeed. Hopefully, at some point people will understand that this is implicit in any discussion about getting rid of the ChangeLog files. Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence some gcc warnings. 2010-12-20 14:19 ` Chong Yidong 2010-12-20 15:31 ` /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence somegcc warnings Drew Adams @ 2010-12-20 18:08 ` Stefan Monnier 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2010-12-20 18:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Chong Yidong Cc: Eli Zaretskii, romain, Štěpán Němec, emacs-devel >> I fail to see the relationship between ChangeLog changes and >> bisecting. In any case, the way forward is to stop using ChangeLog >> files. > I still find the ChangeLog rather useful. Occasional extra verbiage in > the bzr diffs and an extra minute's editing work when merging branches > is not a large price to pay. Agreed, which is why I'm not making any particular effort to get rid of the ChangeLog files. But I just point out that if someone wants to fix those pesky ChangeLog diffs, (s)he should work towards getting rid of the ChangeLog files rather than trying to impose some constraint on how I edit them. Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2010-12-20 18:08 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <E1PUCaG-00051g-NC@internal.in.savannah.gnu.org> 2010-12-19 11:41 ` /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence some gcc warnings Romain Francoise 2010-12-19 13:59 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-12-19 15:01 ` Eli Zaretskii 2010-12-20 2:53 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-12-20 8:03 ` Štěpán Němec 2010-12-20 14:04 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-12-20 14:19 ` Chong Yidong 2010-12-20 15:31 ` /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence somegcc warnings Drew Adams 2010-12-20 16:51 ` Karl Fogel 2010-12-20 17:18 ` Drew Adams 2010-12-20 18:05 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-12-20 18:08 ` /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r102688: Minor clean up to silence some gcc warnings Stefan Monnier
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